BE PATIENT!!! JUST SCROLL DOWN IF YOU LIKE THIS LITTLE BLOG...I'LL LINK IT ON THE SIDE BAR IN A FEW DAYS FROM NOW!!! I TIRED TO CUT IT BUT IT WON'T WORK!!! JUST BE PATIENT!!!!
You asked for it and now you got it!!! I really hate to blog all this BS in this blog but I will!!!
I'll change this particular with the new questions.
I'll post them in my link.
You people can debate the issues in there!!!!
For now...it'll take some space in the blog but it'll only be for a few days!!!
Enjoy!!!
UGH!!!!
ORAL QUESTIONS 1 QUESTIONS ORALES
November 26, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 26 novembre 2008
019 11:15
Mr. P. Robichaud: As is the tradition on the first sitting day of a new session, I am asking for the
cooperation of the government for an extension of 15 minutes to question period.
Hon. Members: Agreed.
Mr. Alward: Good morning, Mr. Speaker. Before I begin, I would like to say that it is a pleasure
to rise today for my first question period as leader of the official opposition of New Brunswick.
Economy
We are all aware that New Brunswick is not immune to the current global economic crisis. Part of
the question of how hard our province will be impacted will rest with how this government chooses
to proceed in the short term. Like many New Brunswickers, I look forward to reviewing the
province’s economic update, as promised in yesterday’s speech from the throne. With that said, will
the Premier confirm today how large a deficit his government is now forecasting for this year and
what it is forecasting for the year 2009-10?
Hon. S. Graham: I welcome the first question from the Leader of The Opposition this morning, and
I do look forward to a new debate in the Legislature. I want to begin by saying that the global
situation changed dramatically on October 14. There were repercussions throughout the world when
a number of large financial institutions began to fail. That financial institution failure has now
moved on to Main Street, and we are seeing a number of large corporations dealing with issues of
access to capital and liquidity of funds.
As we have moved forward, our government has started a plan. That plan is the self-sufficiency
agenda. I have to say that by focusing on the three key priority areas of education, economic
development, and energy, we are well ahead of the curve. In fact, even though New Brunswick will
be facing difficult times, we are certainly in a much better position today than many other regions
in North America. This is because of the prudent and wide decisions our government made in
diversifying the economy early in its mandate.
Mr. Alward: We are clearly not in a better position today than we were in in 2006. After that type
of response, people certainly know more now that the Premier has answered that question. People
in this province are being told to tighten their belts. At the same time, the government has failed to
provide them with any indication of what the future holds. New Brunswickers and their businesses
needed an economic update weeks ago. New Brunswickers need to know that the government has
a plan to deal with the economy. Will the Premier confirm today the date on which he will provide
New Brunswickers with a complete economic update, as was promised in the throne speech?
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Hon. S. Graham: What is important, as was clearly indicated yesterday, is that we need a
coordinated approach. The government of Nova Scotia adjourned its Legislature yesterday without
releasing a fiscal update. The government of Canada is currently in session and has not released a
fiscal update. What I can say is that we are working with Premiers across the country. We are
working with the government of Canada. We are taking a coordinated approach. In fact, early in the
new year, I will be meeting with the First Ministers and with the Prime Minister. We will be talking
about four key areas and about how we can weather this global economic storm by enhancing our
infrastructure, strengthening our financial markets, enhancing our competitiveness, and dealing with
labour market issues. Those are four key areas where we are working on cooperating. I can
guarantee you that prior to this House recessing for the Christmas break, an update will be provided
by the Minister of Finance.
Click below to read the rest!!!
Mr. Alward: The government of Canada is releasing an economic update tomorrow. What is clear
today is that the people of New Brunswick need to be reassured by their Premier on the state of their
economy, and also on the state of the province’s financial records. The Premier has done nothing
today to reassure. At the same time, we need to come together with business and community leaders.
The Graham government is staying idle on this; it is staying silent. In fact, we know that business
organizations and other groups have been seeking an economic forum with government for months.
The Chairman of the New Brunswick Business Council, Denis Losier, agrees that the government
cannot put together a long-term plan in isolation, and that it needs to get all the players around the
same table, working toward the same goal. In light of this, will the Premier show true leadership and
make a commitment today to immediately cohost with us a nonpartisan economic roundtable?
020 11:20
Hon. S. Graham: I want to make two points this morning. First, I think it was reassuring yesterday
for New Brunswickers to hear a very important message from a global leader, President Clinton,
when he visited our province. I think it is important to stress this fact. President Clinton said that we
need a coordinated approach now more than ever. He talked about critical investments in
infrastructure, but not just any type of infrastructure. He said that the first area of priority that
needed to be identified was transmission coverage. Governments should be looking at enhancing
green power technology such as wind power—which is currently under way in New Brunswick
under our leadership—as well as increasing transmission capacity. We are taking that step today.
Second, he talked about the importance of investing in electronic coverage. He said that we should
be rallying around the implementation of broadband access in rural parts of North America. I am
proud to say today that we are going to be in a position, in this session of the House, to announce
a program for 100% coverage for broadband access, a first in North America for any jurisdiction.
Third, yesterday, President Clinton said that we should be looking at investments in electronic
patient records. Two years ago, we embarked upon this path, and we are well on our way to
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delivering investments in infrastructure and electronic patient records. These were three critical
areas on which President Clinton said a government should be embarking, and New Brunswick
started two years ago under this leadership.
Mr. Alward: Let the record show today—and let the business leaders, the community leaders, and
the academic leaders of New Brunswick hear clearly—that the Premier has no intention of sitting
down and seeking their guidance and leadership. President Clinton, incidentally, also talked about
tax relief for middle income earners yesterday. This government has gone in the completely opposite
direction. Soon after becoming leader, I suggested that, as leaders, we lead by example and forgo
our annual salary increases. Today, in fact, we hear that the federal government is considering a
similar initiative to help curb expenses. Again, it is leading by example. However, we were told that
this idea was shortsighted. Will the Premier reconsider the answer that he gave to New
Brunswickers, set an historic example today, and announce that he will rescind his government’s
decision to award bonuses to deputy ministers and NB Power executives, and salary increases for
MLAs and ministers, for the upcoming fiscal year and beyond?
Hon. S. Graham: As I indicated in my first answer, I wanted to make two points, and I want to
come back to the second point. This is a valid question. We have some challenges today in our
province. We are not immune to the global economic conditions. In fact, as we know, revenues are
decreasing, and expenditures, especially on the social side with the health care costs, continue to
increase. That is why I feel it is very important that all stakeholders are at the table. In my reply to
the throne speech, we are going to be laying out a coordinated approach to engaging a number of
different community groups in the decision-making process, and the business council will be one
such initiative. However, I want to remind the member opposite that it is also important that we
continually reach out to a number of stakeholders. I want to state that the Leader of the Opposition
missed a perfect opportunity, on Saturday night, at the Conseil économique du Nouveau-Brunswick
dinner, with over 600 businesses present from across the province. Not one Conservative member
was present at that forum.
Mr. Alward: Mr. Losier identified that this government needs to act now and not six months from
now. It is clear that this Premier does not understand the challenges facing New Brunswickers. Since
becoming the Leader of the Opposition, I have said that I want to bring a different kind of leadership
to New Brunswickers. In my opinion, part of leadership is working with others. With the province
swimming in red ink, I have offered all the expertise and wisdom of a government that recorded
balanced budget after balanced budget, to work with this government on any current and future
budgetary challenges. Will the Premier accept our invitation and our expertise, so that we can work
together to find constructive solutions to the budgetary difficulties facing this government and New
Brunswickers?
Hon. S. Graham: As I indicated yesterday, every single program of government is currently under
review. Two ministers are chairing that committee review, which will be brought forward in the
budget process in the spring.
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021 11:25
We are not immune to the challenges facing many other jurisdictions. Fortunately, because of the
government’s decision to invest in the energy sector, today, we are seeing over $1 billion worth of
investment in wind power development. Two years ago, when we took office, the message from the
previous government was that it was not a priority. Our government changed that, and it is a priority
today.
We also put in place the incentive to see the new potash mine developed in the Sussex area, a $1.7-
billion investment that is happening today, which will help drive the economy. That is coupled with
the liquified natural gas plant coming on line this year. We continue to work with the stakeholders.
The Eider Rock project is also our top priority today. Let me be very clear: When 80% of the global
refinery projects have been cancelled, today, in New Brunswick, our project is still proceeding. We
are working with the business community to help bring that project across the finish line.
We are taking action. I appreciate that the Leader of the Opposition wants to contribute. There will
be ample opportunity for contribution with legislation and debate in this Chamber. That is where
we need the true level of cooperation from the opposition—in passing the important pieces of
legislation to serve the people of New Brunswick in these difficult times.
Mr. Alward: Again, the Premier is missing an opportunity to show leadership and find ways to
work with the opposition. This will probably be a good question to ask this morning. The Premier
indicated that Eider Rock is his government’s project. The last time I checked, I thought it was
Irving Oil’s project. The Premier is talking about a lot of projects on the horizon, but the reality is
something different. As the Premier stated yesterday, and as confirmed by the Conference Board
of Canada, many of the province’s construction projects have come to an end or will come to an end
in 2009. It is this Premier’s job to put a plan together to secure and reassure New Brunswickers,
especially during one of the worst economic meltdowns we have ever witnessed.
Yesterday’s speech from the throne did little to reassure New Brunswickers about the challenges
this province has and the vision this government has for how we will deal with the slowing down
of the global economy. Keeping this in mind, can the Premier tell New Brunswickers today what
his government’s plan is to maintain and create jobs and to keep the economy going?
Hon. S. Graham: The Leader of the Opposition raises a valid point. Today, many governments are
looking at starting infrastructure investments in their jurisdictions to stimulate the economy. Because
of the prudent approach that our government took during our first years in office, those projects are
on the ground; they are happening today and employing thousands of New Brunswickers.
Let’s look at Edmundston. Just last week, I announced $1 million for the new $9-million complex
for the new community centre in that region, for the police headquarters and the library. In Grand
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Falls, the new civic centre is under way. Here, in Fredericton, there is the new Currie centre, and this
is the first time we have seen a construction crane tower in this city in a very long time. Just across
the street, the new convention centre and office complex is under way, coupled with the tricounty
complex.
Let’s look at Grand Manan, where a new ferry will be purchased for that island. Let’s look to Saint
John. Harbour cleanup, an issue that sat dormant for years, is under way. It is happening as we
speak. There are also the one-mile interchange, investments in the medical school, and upgrades to
the emergency room.
Let’s look at Sussex today, where a new pool is being constructed and investments are being made
in the Fundy Trail. The biggest investment of all on the part of the private sector is the new potash
mine. Let’s look at Moncton. There is a new track at the University of Moncton. The restoration of
the Petitcodiac River is a $20-million investment. The opposition is yet to take a position on that
issue. The new casino involves a $90-million investment of private sector money in that community.
The new courthouse, under a public-private partnership, is a $50-million investment.
We move to the Miramichi, where there are investments with Atcon Group to produce a steel
manufacturing centre of excellence. Long overdue, and the top priority, are new investments in
public transportation; the new buses are on the Miramichi. Then we look to northern New
Brunswick and the new pool in Shippagan, something that the former member could not deliver on,
which we are delivering on today. Wind power . . .
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Premier, time.
022 11:30
Mr. Alward: We will see if, over the next year and a half, this government is still laughing about
what is taking place and the tightening up that is taking place in this province today.
I was on Grand Manan this past weekend. Talk to the people of Grand Manan about the economy
there. This is serious. People in New Brunswick, like people across Canada, are hurting. This
government and all members of the Legislature need to show leadership.
Je veux faire référence à un récent rapport publié par le Conference Board du Canada. On indique
dans le rapport que les secteurs forestier et manufacturier du Nouveau-Brunswick seront parmi les
plus touchés suite à la réduction de 13 millions de dollars du financement du programme de
sylviculture, ce qui a engendré la perte de 1 000 emplois et a nui du secteur manufacturier. Quels
sont les plans du premier ministre pour redonner de la vigueur à cette industrie dont dépend tant de
nos amis et de nos familles pour leur gagne-pain?
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Hon. S. Graham: In this session of the Legislature, we are going to be responding to the Erdle
report and also to the CIBC World Markets report, the Don Roberts report. We have been working
with the forest industry. In fact, we have been helping to make critical investments to see upgrades.
We were in Edmundston to see upgrades to Fraser’s. It is an investment of over $40 million. There
is a significant investment at the Plaster Rock mill. I can go around many regions of the province
and talk about each specific enterprise that has been requesting access.
However, I want to come back to the other issue of infrastructure, because that is critical. Other
governments are talking about kick-starting their infrastructure projects that they will see
implemented two years down the road. Infrastructure investments are happening today, on the
ground, in our province. The member asked what plan we have brought forward. We brought
forward an asset management plan that took the politics out of paving. Last year, we had the best
capital budget in our province’s history.
The members opposite may laugh, but their own new member was on public radio, stating that this
is the case. This program is working, and guess what. This year’s capital budget will honour that
asset management program. I can tell you today that by keeping those workers on the ground, that
money stays here in New Brunswick. That is coupled with the investments over the past two years
in moose fencing, something that the opposition said that it would not do. In fact, the former Leader
of the Opposition stated in his reply to the budget speech . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Mr. Alward: Again this morning, the Premier is losing an opportunity to show leadership and work
together on behalf of all New Brunswickers.
I would like to call on the Premier to answer this question for New Brunswickers. Since your
government is not going to move ahead with its taxation reform, which was supposed to help New
Brunswickers stimulate the economy by putting more money back in their pockets and, thus, spend
that money going forward, can you share with New Brunswickers today your plan for an economic
relief package for individuals and small and medium-sized businesses that are hurting now?
Hon. S. Graham: This is important, because our government has embarked upon five areas of
reform: postsecondary education reform, education reform, and health care reform. We are seeing
that those reforms are bearing fruit. In fact, we are the second jurisdiction in the country to see
pharmacists actually being able to prescribe, and midwives are being brought into the system and
there is the development of electronic patient records. Because of education reform, we are seeing
our test scores improve for the first time in a very long time in New Brunswick. We are seeing more
physical education in the school system. We are seeing an emphasis being put on the trades and
apprenticeship to train our children for the skilled workforce requirements for tomorrow. As we
move forward with postsecondary reform, you will be seeing the commitment in the upcoming
budget for that reform.
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023 11:35
I want to come back to the last two areas of reform, because I want to be very clear. The two areas
of reform on local government and on taxation will be taken into the context of the current financial
situation. However, we are committed to these reforms.
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Hon. S. Graham: We will do it when the opportunity of the global situation . . .
Finance
Mr. Fitch: It is a pleasure for me to rise in the House today as the Finance Critic. One of the things
I would like to do as Finance Critic is offer concrete, creative ideas that will help the people of New
Brunswick, especially in this time of economic crisis that we are facing globally. Since the
government will not agree to an economic, nonpartisan roundtable, I am bringing a question forward
for the Minister of Finance to consider. Not only will it help his revenue stream, but it will also help
the economy and the people who need it the most.
For the people who own locked-in retirement accounts and have rolled them into life income funds,
the maximum amount of income that they can withdraw per year is set on December 31, and it is
based on the lump sum and some other variables. Due to the global financial crisis that we face
today, many New Brunswickers will face a significant reduction in their income coming out of their
locked-in retirement funds for 2009.
Will the Minister of Finance change the amount that is available to be unlocked from these locked-in
retirement plans to a one lifetime amount of 50% of the plan value? This is something that will not
only help the economy but also the people who will be faced with a significant downturn and a
significant reduction in their income in 2009.
Hon. V. Boudreau: I would like to thank the new critic for his first question as Finance Critic. The
crisis that we are facing is of global proportions. It is practically unprecedented in the world. All
leaders are looking at issues such as the one that the critic just raised. This issue was raised when
the Premiers met, when the Ministers of Finance met, and at the First Ministers’ meeting. It is
something that we all realize needs to be looked at. We have committed to looking at the options
that are available. We are going to be having another Finance Ministers’ meeting in a couple of
weeks. I know that the Premier will be having another meeting with the Prime Minister in January.
We are looking at these issues, and we hope to come to some type of solution.
Mr. Fitch: I can appreciate the response from the Minister of Finance. As stated in the speech from
the throne, the government is going to be studying a lot of things. However, this will take place on
December 31, when the legislation says that, based on the lump sum in the plan, based on the age
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of the person, the amount of income stream that will be taken out of that locked-in retirement
account will be determined for 2009.
We cannot wait. We cannot wait until January or for six months. We need to have the direction of
the government now, so that the retirement people who are facing up to a 40% reduction in their
income in 2009 will have some satisfaction, security, and some ease in knowing that the revenue
that they depend on, month in and month out, to pay the bills will not be reduced by a significant
amount. Will the Minister of Finance commit, as the position of New Brunswick, that the
government will allow the unlocking of up to 50% of the value funds now, as opposed to in 2009?
Hon. V. Boudreau: As I indicated in my previous answer, it is something that we are looking at as
a government. All governments across the country are looking at this. There have been discussions
around the Finance Ministers’ table and the Premiers’ table, along with the Prime Minister. Other
meetings are scheduled to look at this issue. This is complex. As I have said earlier, these are
unprecedented situations that have never been seen before. We have to make sure that we proceed
with due diligence and make decisions in the best interest of New Brunswickers and Canadians.
Mr. Fitch: The response from the Minister of Finance is unacceptable. Other jurisdictions have
already moved. The federally regulated pension plans are allowing a 50% withdrawal of the asset
amount, and the province of Ontario has moved on legislation that allows up to 50% withdrawal of
the asset amount in these pension plans.
024 11:40
Why does New Brunswick have to sit back and wait as this government leaves people to cope with
higher electricity bills and higher taxation on their property?
The government will not move today on an event that is going to occur on December 31, to alleviate
a reduction in the pension income of many pensioners here in the province. This will increase the
amount of revenue in the minister’s tax pockets. It will increase the amount of money in the pockets
of the people, and it will increase the amount of money in the economy. This is a good move. It is
a good strategy. Why is the minister waiting? Why not do it right now?
Hon. V. Boudreau: As I have mentioned, it is an issue that we are looking at as a government.
Unfortunately, we did not have the foresight of the minister from York North, who predicted that
this situation was going to occur more than a year ago. This is a situation that has developed in the
past couple of months. It is a situation that is affecting the entire world, not just the province of New
Brunswick. We want to make sure that we do not have any knee-jerk reactions. We are looking at
what is going on around us. We are awaiting the federal minister’s financial update, a forecast which
will be given tomorrow. We are already committed. The Premier made a commitment in the speech
from the throne that we would give an update, and we will be providing more details as to how we
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plan to address the situation. However, it has to be done in due course. We have to make sure that
the decisions we make will have a positive, long-lasting effect on New Brunswickers.
Home Heating Oil Benefit Program
Mr. Holder: My questions are for the Minister of Social Development, on the department formerly
known as Family and Community Services. Since the government came out with its home heating
supplement program, there has been a lot of confusion out there in New Brunswick. I am asking the
minister today to clear up some of that confusion. Under the old program, there were enough New
Brunswickers taking advantage of that program to constitute a $5.5-million government expenditure.
I am wondering what will happen now that the government has only budgeted half a million dollars
in government money for this program. Considering that we are going into tough economic times,
and assuming that more New Brunswickers will need this, where will the government be able to
make up the difference?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is, indeed, a pleasure to rise and address this, because there has been some
miscommunication on the program. I can tell you, as Minister of Social Development, that I am very
pleased. We have made record investments in the Department of Social Development when it comes
to enhanced heating for our clients in the province. I can tell you that there has been a 104% increase
in our emergency fuel benefit for people in New Brunswick. I can also tell you that we are seeing
a 15% increase in electric fuel for clients of Social Development. We are also seeing a 32% increase
for clients who depend on bulk fuel or natural gas. That’s not all. Not since 1989 . . . Last year, our
government increased the heating supplement for people who live in subsidized housing. We
increased it last year, and we are increasing it again this year. These are record investments for
people on social development, to enable them to heat their homes this year.
Mr. Holder: The program we are talking about here is for low-income seniors. For those low-
income seniors, there is only half a million dollars on the table, whereas, previously, it was $5.5
million. That is the issue. I am asking the minister: How can she make up that difference? There will
be just as many New Brunswickers this year who are going to need this. Is she basically saying that
when the money runs out, that is it? Please tell me that this is not Frank McKenna all over again:
People first, money second ended when the money ran out.
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: Our government has a proven record when it comes to seniors. Our investments
for seniors have no precedent in any other government. Look at nursing homes. Look at our taking
assets out of the formula for calculating the amount of money a person pays for a nursing home.
025 11:45
Let’s talk about the heating supplement. Seniors are included in ours as well. Many seniors live in
housing that is supplemented through our department or is supplemented through a not-for-profit
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agency, our public housing. Those seniors will see that increase that had not happened since 1989.
It is going up to $1 200 per year for those seniors.
We also—and this is very important—have added 500 new families that can take advantage of our
retrofit. An amount of $4 500 is available to anyone of low income, seniors included. It is free. It
is a grant. We have records—and the Minister of Energy can talk on this issue as well—to prove that
is getting to the systemic problem, the root of the problem.
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Holder: The minister has not answered the question with respect to how this will be funded.
This is a financial cut to this department and to this program. It is fine that the government packaged
it in this brilliant disguise with all these other programs, but the fact remains that low-income seniors
will have less money to play with than last year. Could it be that, in order to apply, in order to get
that money, they have to go to a nonprofit agency—a great nonprofit agency, I might add—but one
that is not found in all corners of the province? Is it a fact that the government is banking on, that,
because of that inaccessibility, fewer New Brunswickers are going to apply? Is that how the
government is going to make up for it? How can the minister reassure us that people in all regions
of this province can access this program?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: I am the Minister of Social Development, and you are talking about seniors of
low income. I have assured the member opposite that any senior who is living in our public housing
or in housing that requires a subsidy through the government will be taken care of. I have already
explained the enhancements to our heating program. We also know that seniors of low income can
also tap into the $4 500 grant. It may be as simple as, perhaps, insulation. That is available right now
to every senior and every New Brunswicker of low income in the province. I can tell the member
opposite that the total of these new investments is over $5 million of new enhancements to the
Department of Social Development, to make sure that the most vulnerable, for whom I am
responsible in the department, receive the heating supplements they need.
M. P. Robichaud : Ce matin, la ministre du Développement social prêche dans le désert. Personne
ne croit en son programme et personne au Nouveau-Brunswick n’appuie son programme. Les
parlementaires du côté du gouvernement sont les seuls qui croient en leurs programmes, étant donné
qu’ils sont dans une bulle de verre.
Si le ministre de l’Énergie veut répondre à ma question, libre à lui de le faire. Toutefois, la ministre
du Développement social ou quelqu’un d’autre du gouvernement peut-il me confirmer que de
demander à l’Armée du Salut de s’occuper d’un programme pour les gens à faible revenu et les aînés
du Nouveau-Brunswick a été une erreur, étant donné que l’Armée du Salut ne se retrouve pas dans
toutes les régions du Nouveau-Brunswick? De plus, avec ce programme de 500 000 $, c’est loin
d’être suffisant, lorsque l’on sait que, l’an passé, un montant de 5,5 millions a été utilisé pour venir
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November 26, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 26 novembre 2008
en aide aux mêmes personnes, alors que, aujourd’hui, le gouvernement ne met qu’un faible montant
de 500 000 $ sur la table.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I would like to thank the member for Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou for the question
as the new Energy Critic. Let me talk a bit about this program with the Salvation Army and perhaps
add to what Minister Schryer was saying. When you are over there playing politics and saying that
we have decreased the program from $5.3 million to $500 000, that is wrong. That is not true. The
fact of the matter is that the program has increased to $6.3 million. You can all say that does not
include these people, but it does. The fact is that seniors are included in energy supplements that are
provided by the Department of Social Development. Every single New Brunswicker is included, if
they show the financial need. They can request, from the Department of Social Development, help
from the emergency heating fund. That has increased from one $270 lump sum payment to $550.
It was this government that did that.
026 11:50
With respect to the Salvation Army, this is a program that has been set up for New Brunswickers
to help New Brunswickers. How in the Lord’s name can the opposition . . .
Mr. Speaker: Minister, time.
M. P. Robichaud : Nous ne sommes pas les seuls à être en désaccord avec le gouvernement. Tout
le monde est en désaccord avec lui. Il n’y a pas un seul groupe qui défend les intérêts des démunis
au Nouveau-Brunswick et qui a appuyé l’initiative du gouvernement. Avec cette initiative, le
gouvernement prêche dans le désert.
Le ministre de l’Énergie, tout comme la ministre du Développement social, peut faire la
gymnastique mathématique qu’il veut, il reste qu’il y a beaucoup moins d’argent cette année pour
aider les gens à faible revenu et les personnes âgées au Nouveau-Brunswick comparativement à l’an
dernier.
Dois-je rappeler au gouvernement qu’il a lui-même éliminé la remise de la TVH sur les produits de
chauffage? À ce moment-là, cela représentait une économie de 63 millions par année pour les gens
du Nouveau-Brunswick. On est passé d’un programme de 63 millions de dollars à un programme
de 5,5 millions de dollars, avec un maximum de 500 000 $ pour cette année. Que les parlementaires
du côté du gouvernement ne viennent pas nous faire croire que c’est un programme amélioré,
personne ne les croit.
Ma question au ministre de l’Énergie est celle-ci : Peut-il confirmer à la Chambre aujourd’hui qu’il
y aura suffisamment de fonds pour aider tous ceux qui sont admissibles au programme du Nouveau-
Brunswick et qui en feront la demande?
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Hon. Mr. Keir: Just the facts. The facts are: Monthly supplements for heating for those that need
it the most have increased from $130 to $150 per month. That is $20 per month over six months.
That is an increase to the plan that was there last year. The fact of the matter is, the emergency
heating fund has increased from $270 to a lump sum payment of $550.That is an increase to that
plan.
The Salvation Army program, which will be administered by the Salvation Army, was put in place
partly because the opposition asked us to look at what was going on in neighbouring provinces. We
looked at what was going on in Nova Scotia, and we looked at what was going on in Prince Edward
Island. Guess what, folks? They have a plan that is very similar to this and that is administered by
the Salvation Army.
M. P. Robichaud : Si le ministre veut donner d’autres provinces en exemple, je lui rappellerai que
le gouvernement de l’Île-du-Prince-Édouard a investi 200 000 $ dans cette province qui a à peu près
la population de la grande ville de Saint John. Ici, on parle peut-être d’un maximum de 500 000 $
pour une province qui a sept fois la population de l’Île-du-Prince-Édouard. Le comble, comme mon
collègue de Saint-John Portland l’a mentionné... Nous n’avons rien contre l’Armée du Salut, c’est
un groupe de bénévoles qui fait un excellent travail. Cependant, la réalité est que cet organisme n’est
pas présente dans toutes les régions du Nouveau-Brunswick. Il n’est pas dans le Madawaska, dans
la Péninsule acadienne ou dans le comté de Charlotte. Je vous donne tout simplement ces trois
exemples. Comment une famille à faible revenu de l’île Lamèque pourra-t-elle avoir accès à ce
programme si l’Armée du Salut n’est même pas présente dans la Péninsule acadienne et dans la
grande majorité des régions rurales et francophones du Nouveau-Brunswick? Le fait que le
gouvernement ait créé un tel programme est une insulte à la population francophone et rurale de
cette province.
Le ministre peut-il se lever aujourd’hui et corriger ce programme qui ne respecte pas les gens qui
en ont besoin, soit les gens à faible revenu et les personnes âgées du Nouveau-Brunswick?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I appreciate the question. The member for Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou raises a
good issue. The fact of the matter is that it is not just the Salvation Army that is going to be
administering this program. It is also going to include Service New Brunswick, which has 48
locations around the province. It is also going to include the city of Edmundston, and it is also going
to include, for the member’s benefit, the Centre de bénévolat de la Péninsule acadienne. It is going
to be situated around the province so all folks around the province have the opportunity to apply for
the program.
I might add that perhaps it is also the job of MLAs to ensure they have applications in their ridings
and to help those folks that may need help with that application.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 1 QUESTIONS ORALES
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Home Economists
Mr. Jack Carr: I am honoured to stand here today to ask my first question as the member for New
Maryland-Sunbury West. I want to thank the residents for putting their trust and faith in me.
027 11:55
The speech from the throne talked in great length of financial difficulties that we are facing in the
economy. The OECD says that the world is facing its worst recession in 30 years. The government
is cutting eight home economist positions which offer vital services to families and to seniors in
need. They help families recover from crisis. They help them manage with their food, money, and
more. In tough economic times, why is the Shawn Graham government hurting the most vulnerable?
Mr. Speaker: Since you are new, I just want you to be aware that, every time you ask to speak, you
have to ask permission to speak from a seat other than your own. Please remember what I mentioned
a while ago about referring to Shawn Graham. It should be “Premier Graham” or “Mr. Graham”.
(Interjection.)
Mr. Speaker: No, the question was asked.
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: I know what it is like to be a rookie, too. Let me start by saying this. Yes, we
are reorganizing in the Department of Social Development. We are reorganizing. Part of my job as
minister is to make sure that we can find consistencies across the province and that we improve
inefficiencies across the province, and that is what we are doing. Twice today, I have heard
something said in this House that is not true with regard to services being discontinued. That is not
true. Services are going to continue for our clients. They will be delivered in a different manner.
However, the services will continue as the clients need them and as provided in the case
management. That needs to be corrected. People continuously say that services are not going to be
provided; that is not true. It is incorrect; get it out of your vocabulary. Services will continue. They
will continue to serve the people who need it the most in our department.
Mr. Jack Carr: The people of New Brunswick have it in their vocabulary that they are hurting and
that they are not being helped. The eight home economist positions are being cut, and that is not
right. In tough economic times, the Graham government should not be cutting those positions. Your
message is inconsistent. You talked about tough economic times in the speech from the throne, but
you are cutting these positions. You are out of touch with reality and the challenges facing New
Brunswickers. The Speech from the Throne, on page 6, says: “All programs will be reviewed”.
Madam Minister, will you reinstate the eight positions that you cut this month and include them in
your program review mentioned on page 6 of the Speech from the Throne?
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Hon. Mrs. Schryer: I would like to let everyone in the House know that the Department of Social
Development actually received a 3.5% increase in this year’s budget. That needs to be said. To
reiterate, services will continue. I recognize that change is not easy sometimes and that it is difficult
for people when we have to change the way we deliver services. We want to make sure that it is as
easy as possible, and that is why it is important that these false statements about services being cut
are stopped. We want to make this transition as easy as possible for people. The services of home
economics providers will still be used within our department. They provide valuable services that
we can continue to incorporate to make sure that, as social workers determine what the case
management is for each client, we will be able to provide that service.
Mr. Jack Carr: The minister is correct. The change is not easy. The home economists work with
families in their homes and help them day after day. Change is not easy when you are taking those
positions out. Eight positions are being cut. You cannot tell me that services will not be affected.
They will be affected. The people of New Brunswick are very concerned. The speech from the
throne talks about reviewing all programs. Eight positions were cut earlier this month, so why not
reinstate those positions? They have a three-month notice anyway.
028 12:00
Wait three more months until the program review is released in the spring. Put those eight home
economists back into their positions; include them in the program review. Help the most vulnerable.
They are the ones who need the help. They are the ones who are saying that the change is not easy.
Keep those positions. The government has said that it is not going to save money, so keep the
positions and help the most vulnerable.
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is important that we talk about the program that has been put in place for our
staff. They are able to access the redeployment program through government. We are confident that
the home economists will be staying with us in Social Development. The redeployment program
enables them to have the first opportunities for positions in our department. Again, the message here
today, which is so important, is that the service will continue, it will not be interrupted, and it will
be delivered according to the clients’ needs, which their case manager has prioritized. We will
continue to serve the most vulnerable, as we always have in our department.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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=========================================================================================================================================================================
ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
November 28, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 28 novembre 2008
Economy
Mr. Alward: Earlier this week, the Premier refused to tell the House how large the provinces’s
deficit was. The Premier said he was going to refuse to move on tax reform until at least next spring.
As I said yesterday, New Brunswickers need this government to act on the economy now, not six
months from now. People are expecting action. As was stated by Hollis Cole, President and CEO
of ADI Group, you will not solve any problems by doing nothing. Will the Premier tell this House
what he is going to do to protect New Brunswick’s economy now?
Hon. S. Graham: All New Brunswickers today are very concerned about what the future holds in
the current economic uncertainty, globally, nationally, and provincially. I can tell you emphatically
today that, this week, our government has launched a comprehensive speech from the throne. Next
week, the Minister of Finance will be providing a fiscal update. In the third week of this session, we
will be tabling the largest infrastructure investment in our province’s history, to help stimulate the
economy. Also that week, we understand we will be receiving the all-party committee report on the
discussion of taxation reform. Our government anticipates that it will be in a position to initiate and
to announce in broad strokes where we will be moving forward.
I can state very clearly today that major belt-tightening was announced this week, and that will be
delivered in the spring budget. However, much more is needed than just fiscal restraint and belt-
tightening today. What is required is a major fiscal stimulus, and our government will be taking a
reasonable and balanced approach in delivering both to the people of New Brunswick.
Mr. Alward: Clearly, the people of New Brunswick are expecting action now, not in the spring
budget. The changes need to take place now. The belt-tightening needs to take place now. It does
not need to start in the spring.
When you are going through a storm, you need a strong ship to withstand that storm. It is called
leadership, and this government is clearly lacking it. Yesterday, I spoke of the need for leadership,
and I outlined a number of measures that would provide an immediate stimulus to our province’s
economy. Will the Premier support our call for an immediate economic stimulus and table the action
plan now? Will he have it come into play now, not in the spring?
Hon. S. Graham: We heard the Conservative plan yesterday: Set up a Web site and have a meeting.
We have taken a very coordinated approach, and the Liberal plan has been very clear. This week,
we announced that we would be putting in place spending restraints. Every single program is under
review, and there will be ample opportunity for both sides of this Chamber to determine the
corrective measures through the budgetary process.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
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020 11:20
More important than that, next week, the Minister of Finance is going to be providing a fiscal
update. In the third week, we are going to be launching the most comprehensive and most important
infrastructure budget that our province has ever seen as a major economic stimulus package to
dovetail the spending restraint. In the fourth week, as I have stated in this Chamber, we are hoping
to be in a position to move forward in broad strokes on the discussion on taxation reform, taking into
account the current economic situation. As I stated earlier this week, we need to be prudent, and we
need to be mindful of what New Brunswickers are facing today in terms of hardships. Our
government is cognizant of that, and we will be addressing those issues.
Prior to the recess of this Chamber before Christmas, New Brunswickers will clearly be able to see
the difference between our plan and the nonaction of the plan tabled by the Leader of the Opposition
yesterday.
Mr. Alward: When this government came to power, it committed that it would not raise taxes for
individuals, for small businesses, for medium-sized business, and for corporations. Immediately
following coming into power, the government raised taxes. Part of what we are seeing today is a
direct result of what this government did. At the same time, the tax reforms about which this
government talks would see an increase in the HST, which would impact all New Brunswickers.
Yesterday, I called for an immediate reduction—not six months down the road—in personal taxes,
in small business taxes, in medium-sized business taxes, and in corporations’ taxes. I called for an
immediate reduction of taxes in New Brunswick. Will the Premier support our call for immediate
tax reductions so that New Brunswickers can have more money in their pockets so that they can help
keep this economy going?
Hon. S. Graham: Our government cannot be more clear than it is today. We are very concerned
about New Brunswickers today who may be in jeopardy of losing their jobs, who may have
difficulty in making ends meet, and who are seeing their retirement savings plans dwindle
dramatically in size, because of market volatility. We have stated that, this week, we have launched
a comprehensive throne speech. We have also put in place two committees that have been working
diligently for a month, looking at every single program. We will be bringing forward a budget that
will put in place the spending restraint that is needed.
However, more importantly today, every single business leader and economist across Canada and
the world is saying that much more is needed than just spending restraint. What is needed is a major
economic stimulus package. Our government will be in a very strong position to respond to those
demands and to provide both a responsible and balanced approach . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
November 28, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 28 novembre 2008
M. Alward : Le premier ministre peut-il s’engager aujourd’hui à ce que son gouvernement
n’augmente pas les impôts personnels ou des entreprises au Nouveau-Brunswick? C’est tout.
Hon. S. Graham: It has to be much more than “c’est tout”. I can tell you today that we are going
to be taking a balanced approach. We have lowered the gas tax in New Brunswick by 4.3¢ per litre.
While the former Conservative government wanted to lower that tax over a four-year period, we did
it on day one of our mandate. Today, New Brunswick has the lowest gas taxes in Atlantic Canada.
In the last budget, we brought forward reductions in the corporate capital tax, and we are on track
to eliminate the corporate capital tax this year, in New Brunswick, one of the first jurisdictions to
do so.
021 11:25
We recognize that New Brunswickers also need tax relief. That is why we launched an all-party
committee to go out and engage New Brunswickers in a discussion on tax reform. It was important
to receive that input. We are going to be receiving the all-party committee report . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Mr. Alward: This government has been very good at spending the taxpayers’ money. Let’s see how
it will be at saving the taxpayers’ money. How will the people of New Brunswick be able to live as
we go forward?
This morning, my following question comes from the young gentleman who is sitting with us today
in the House. His question is this:
My name is Terry Leavitt and I am 28 years of age. I was injured in a diving accident and have been
paralyzed since that event.
Presently I am living at home with my parents, however, as they are getting older, I cannot continue
to rely on their loving care much longer and therefore I have been trying to get an apartment suited
for me.
..............................................................................
My question to you, Mr. Premier, is: Can you tell me what I have to do in order for me to be like
most other young men and women who have a life of their own and can live on their own?
Hon. S. Graham: As the member opposite knows, we cannot refer to specific cases in this
Chamber, out of respect for confidentiality of information. We will take that question under
advisement today and respond, in broad strokes, to the specific case that you have raised.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
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I want to talk today about the global issues facing the province of New Brunswick, to make sure that
the economy is the number one issue, so that we can move forward to make sure that every single
New Brunswicker, in every single corner of this province, has an opportunity to come through these
difficult economic times in a better position. The Leader of the Opposition has raised a specific case
today. We will take that question under advisement and respond in this Chamber, as required under
protocol.
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Leader of the Opposition, with this line of questioning, we are going to take a
short recess and confer about the legality and technicality of using terms referring to people who are
in the House. We will take a short recess and get back to you as soon as we are ready.
(The House recessed at 11:28 a.m.
The House resumed at 11:58 a.m.)
022-028 12:00
You cannot quote an individual directly in your question. Members have a forum whereby the rules
can be changed, if need be. We have the Procedures Committee, if you need to go there to have the
rules changed. We are looking at rules that have been in place for the last 200 years. All of a sudden,
those rules are being questioned.
I reiterate: I am not trying to stifle anybody. I am just saying that questions have to be asked by us,
as members of the Legislature. I will say again that we cannot quote somebody because, then, it is
not our question we are asking; it is a question from an individual. This is not an open public forum.
This is a forum whereby we, as members of the Legislature, can ask questions of one another, and
not questions of a third party from somewhere else. As I said, we have the right and the obligation
to represent the people in our riding. If there are questions from people in our ridings, then we have
the obligation to ask the questions, but they have to come from each individual in this House, man
or woman. I would sincerely ask all members for their cooperation in this matter.
We stopped the clock during question period. You still have 18 minutes left. I recognize the
Opposition House Leader.
Mr. P. Robichaud: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Is this a point of order?
Mr. P. Robichaud: Yes, on your decision, Mr. Speaker.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
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Mr. Speaker: The decision is final.
Mr. P. Robichaud: As a point of clarification, as you know, Mr. Speaker, I have enormous respect
for you as Speaker of the House. On this side of the House, we have a huge respect for the institution
that you represent. My understanding is that it was very obvious this morning that the Leader of the
Official Opposition was asking a question as a member of the Legislative Assembly, as the MLA
for Woodstock and Leader of the Opposition. If it is a question of wording, we will work on the
wording. I just want to point out our intention. My belief was that, when the Leader of the
Opposition asked the question, he was asking the question as a member of the Legislative Assembly.
We only hope that this decision will not be an attack on what we used to call the people’s House,
the Legislative Assembly, and that it is not an initiative to try to muzzle the official opposition.
Vous savez, il est très important que les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick comprennent très bien
l’importance du rôle d’un député. D’ailleurs, j’ai lu avec grand intérêt les commentaires du leader
parlementaire du gouvernement à la Chambre, qui a dit que c’est la responsabilité première d’un
député de poser des questions au nom de la population que l’on représente. Il est même pratique
normale de poser des questions de personnes que l’on représente ou de personnes qui se présentent
ici, à l’Assemblée législative, mais qui n’ont pas l’occasion de le faire.
Alors, Monsieur le président, nous acceptons votre décision. Nous allons voir à ce que la façon dont
nous posons nos questions reflète vraiment le fait que ce sont des questions posées par un député,
pour un député, aux ministres et au premier ministre à la Chambre. Nous allons continuer notre
bonne initiative de demander aux gens de nous faire part de leurs commentaires, ce qui a
énormément de succès. Merci beaucoup.
Le président : Je veux simplement vous rassurer, Monsieur le leader parlementaire de l’opposition.
La question telle que posée venait d’une personne. On citait une personne, ce qu’on ne peut pas
faire. Ce n’est pas une question de vouloir empêcher les parlementaires de poser des questions, pas
du tout. Comme vous l’avez mentionné, la question peut être reposée d’une façon différente, je n’ai
aucun problème avec cela. Lorsque la question est posée, on ne peut pas citer quelqu’un. Voilà le
point épineux.
We now have 18 minutes and 50 seconds. The floor is yours.
Mr. Alward: Mr. Leavitt has been trying for many months to find adequate housing; however, he
has been given little hope from the Department of Social Development that he will be able to access
adequate housing. Perhaps the Premier can answer this question for us, if we deal with it in the
abstract. What plan does this government have to help disabled nonseniors find a suitable living
environment that gives them their own independence?
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029 12:05
Hon. S. Graham: I want to address three points that I think are important to be mentioned in this
Chamber on the issue of housing. Tomorrow, I am going to be meeting with the secretariat on the
status of disabled persons, and the board is going to be reviewing a number of options at a meeting
that is very important. Coupled with that, today, we launched a very important initiative on poverty
reduction in New Brunswick which is going to tie into the issue of housing, because that is a critical
component of addressing poverty.
However, a third issue that is important to mention this morning, speaking in the context of a
coordinated approach, is that there has yet to be a national housing agreement signed with the
government of Canada. Very clearly, this agreement has expired. I know that, when we met with the
Council of the Federation, all Premiers emphatically stated that this was one of the priorities,
especially in this time of economic uncertainty. Nothing could be stronger than an economic
stimulus package. I have seen the federal government come forward with some form of aid in a
national housing agreement that could be partnered at the provincial level to employ many
tradespeople, and, at the same time, provide adequate housing.
This is a situation that is very important to our government. We are going to continue to lobby the
federal government to honour a commitment that it made during the last federal election, because
the previous agreement has expired. We have also struck the new nonpartisan poverty reduction
initiative today, which will be traveling through the province. Also, I am going to be meeting with
the Premier’s Council on the Status of Disabled Persons tomorrow morning, and I am sure that this
issue will be raised there as well.
Mr. Holder: I hope it is not out of parliamentary tradition that, before I ask my question today, I
say hello to my daughter Maggie, who is home sick today. She said she was going to watch question
period this morning.
Housing
My questions are for the Minister of Social Development. On this side of the House, as the
government knows, we have commended it on its initiative with respect to poverty reduction.
However, one of the things that we called for on this side of the House, if one thing is apparent to
me, is that the key to reducing poverty is providing safe, affordable housing in this province. On this
side of the House, we have called for an all-party committee that could start work this winter, in the
cold months—a most appropriate time to do it—to travel the province and ask New Brunswickers
what they are experiencing. It has been a long time since housing has been reviewed. We would like
to do this so that we can report back to the poverty reduction committee and help it along. Will the
government reconsider and put in place this committee?
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ORAL QUESTIONS 2 QUESTIONS ORALES
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Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is a pleasure to rise in the House today to talk about housing, because, often,
we do not hear a lot about it. I can tell you that our government has been moving forward on the file
very silently, but with much progress. Some $43 million of infrastructure has gone into housing in
the province in the last two years. We have increased the number of new homes in New Brunswick
by over 450. The file is moving forward. As we have stated that we would, we brought back the
renewal of the New Brunswick Housing Corporation. This corporation has been working with
partners. We have partners in the area of disabilities with Randy Dickinson. We have partners with
municipalities. We have partners with nonprofits as well as partners with entrepreneurs to make sure
that we continue to move the file forward. We have been lobbying the federal government. I have
been in Ottawa with my fellow ministers to try to get new housing agreements.
Mr. Holder: It is clear that the government has no intention of setting up an all-party committee.
My next question with respect to safe and affordable housing is this. In the last days that we were
in office, we passed legislation in this House that would protect tenants and boarders under The
Residential Tenancies Act. Those amendments passed in the Legislature. They have yet to be
proclaimed. The government has sat on those amendments for two years. What will the government
do to reassure us that the bill will be proclaimed and that those people will have the rights of all
other tenants across the province?
030 12:10
Hon. Mr. Byrne: It is somewhat ironic that these amendments were brought in by the former
government, which did not proclaim them. The former government had every opportunity to
proclaim those amendments and take action, but it decided, consciously, not to do so because it
knew that it did not want to administer those regulations.
We have carried out a significant undertaking to reform the services provided by the Office of the
Rentalsman. We have brought that office from the Department of Justice into Service New
Brunswick. We are modernizing the Office of the Rentalsman. We are ensuring that service is
available through all the 37 service centres throughout New Brunswick, so that people will have
greater access. We are looking at the whole program of residential tenancies to see what
improvements can be made. Certainly, this is a far cry from what was done in the past by the former
government.
Mr. Holder: I am not going to take a backseat to this government any day when it comes to the
issue of slum landlords. We had a conference in Saint John that came up with a series of
recommendations, many of which are now in effect. This is one that we did not get an opportunity
to proclaim in the last few days of our government. This government has had two years. It said it
was ready to govern. Why is it not respecting the rights of these tenants? If the government wants
to deal with poverty, it should make sure that these people have all the rights of any other tenant in
this province.
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Hon. Mr. Byrne: We would do a great disservice to the people of New Brunswick if we did not
ensure that the government was responsible in addressing this issue. We obviously want to benefit
the people most in need. We need to thoroughly review the nature of these amendments, which
appear to have been made on the fly by the previous government. The last thing we want to do is
create a problem as opposed to providing a solution. If we make these changes too onerous, there
may be residential tenancies that are not available. Perhaps owners will say that it is too much of a
hassle with the new changes to the program and they will not provide residential housing. Those
people we are hoping to impact positively the most may actually be hurt if we rush into this without
thinking out the implications and without doing it right.
Mr. Betts: Many New Brunswickers are hurting. Several people have come into our offices, saying
that their rent has gone up from $600 to $900, and there are no controls. They respect the free
enterprise system, but they are hurting. For many people, heating costs have gone up. The Liberal
government raised the personal income tax and small business tax. Property taxes are up. The thing
I am concerned about in my riding, which depends on the retail sector, with shopping centres, is that
the government may raise the HST, which will hurt that sector. There are tough choices to make that
many New Brunswickers face, for food, heat, housing, and medicine. We have had our first report
card on the homeless, and about 1 450 people were homeless in the Moncton area last year.
My question to the minister is this: How many New Brunswickers are waiting for subsidized
housing? What is the turnaround time for these units? We know that about 1 000 people are waiting,
and there are reports that some units were empty for a while. Could we have an update on that?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is appropriate today in the House, with the questions that we were able to
launch and share with everyone, the co-Chairs for the new poverty initiative . . . It is all very linked
when we look at housing, income levels, health card needs, and child care. Housing is part of it. It
is a complex issue. We have been working diligently on the file of housing, as I have already stated.
In Moncton, we have seen our occupancy rates increase. In the province, our occupancy rate for
housing is 97%, which is very, very high.
031 12:15
Unfortunately, though, we still do have wait lists. We still have 4 000 people in New Brunswick
waiting for housing, and that is why today it is so important that we all reach out a hand and work
together to make sure that we can battle poverty to make this housing crisis go away.
Mr. Betts: This is certainly something both sides of this Chamber are concerned about and want to
work cooperatively on and be involved. There is not necessarily an incentive for some of the owners
of these units to report as empty if they are being paid for them. My question is: When one of these
units is vacant, do government officials inspect it to see what repairs are needed and then give the
owners a certain amount of time? What steps has the Department of Social Development taken to
monitor the turnaround time for subsidized units so that people in need can have proper housing?
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Hon. Mrs. Schryer: Thank you for the question. It is a concern because there is absolutely no
benefit to anyone to have an empty unit. That being said, we have contractual rights with landlords
that have rent subsidies, so a certain amount of time is allowed to elapse to make sure the unit can
be turned around and a deserving person put into it. We also have a policy in the department to look
at turnaround levels to make sure that the unit can be occupied within 60 days.
It is very important to remember that we have one of the oldest housing stocks in Canada. To my
critic opposite, in his riding alone—Crescent Valley, Churchill Boulevard—in Saint John, this
government is undertaking one of the largest revitalizations of a project that was built in the late
1950s. We recognized that this project needed to be torn down and rebuilt in the new way, with the
dreams and the hopes of the people who live there as to what their community is going to look like.
You can be assured that the housing file is well attended. I have asked for monthly reports to come
to my desk so that I can see the waiting lists and vacancies.
Emploi
Mme Dubé : Alors que je pensais que les choses ne pouvaient pas nécessairement empirer, ici au
Nouveau-Brunswick, en lisant le Telegraph-Journal de ce matin, j’apprends que l’une des
compagnies PQA était prête à faire de la création d’emplois au Nouveau-Brunswick, jusqu’à 500
nouveaux emplois, et qu’on a accepté de laisser partir ces emplois pour une autre province.
On reconnaît le potentiel de nos petites et moyennes entreprises. Pour cette entreprise, en particulier,
notre gouvernement a investi plus de 325 000 $ pour l’aider à croître.
Ma question est pour le premier ministre. Qu’a-t-il fait ou que n’a-t-il pas fait, justement, pour aider
cette compagnie à garder et à créer des emplois qui sont extrêmement nécessaires dans cette
province, surtout qu’il s’agit d’entrepreneurs de notre propre province?
L’hon. M. Byrne : L’article dans le Telegraph-Journal de ce matin a une mauvaise intonation. Le
gouvernement a aidé la compagnie dans la création de son fonctionnement. Il l’a aussi aidée en ce
qui a trait à la création d’emplois et à l’embauche de nouveaux employés.
Le gouvernement va aussi aider la compagnie dans l’avenir. Le gouvernement et mes collègues ont
assisté cette compagnie et travaillent avec celle-ci chaque semaine. Par exemple, la semaine
dernière, la compagnie a participé à une mission commerciale à Toronto. L’information dans le
journal est de la mauvaise information.
Mme Dubé : Monsieur le ministre, êtes-vous prêt à nier que cette même compagnie a annoncé qu’elle
avait créé 200 emplois en Nouvelle-Écosse? Ce sont 200 emplois qui auraient pu être créés, ici, au
Nouveau-Brunswick. Le ministre peut-il au moins clarifier cette situation?
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032 12:20
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I would be glad to clarify. As I have indicated, we have worked with this company
since its inception. We have worked with it to create jobs. It has over 100 jobs here in Fredericton.
It has jobs additionally in Moncton. It is growing. It is expanding its operations here. It has its
headquarters here. It is the company’s intention that its headquarters will still be here.
This is a good news story. This is a company that is expanding its base of operations. It is looking
at the Nova Scotia market in addition to its growth in the New Brunswick market. Like many
companies in New Brunswick that have grown and become successful, it is branching out to new
markets. It is no different from McCain looking at markets across the world.
This is great news. We have worked with this company. We have supported it. We have worked
with it to develop its business plans. We have been involved with it all along with respect to its
expansions, and the company is interested in growing in New Brunswick, as well. We will be there.
Mme Dubé : Le ministre peut danser autant qu’il veut, mais la réalité ce matin, c’est que des emplois
sont perdus partout dans la province sous le présent gouvernement, étant donné qu’il a augmenté
les impôts et brisé l’économie de cette province. Voir le ministre se lever à la Chambre ce matin
pour dire qu’il se réjouit que 200 emplois soient partis en Nouvelle-Écosse quand ils auraient pu être
ici, au Nouveau-Brunswick, démontre encore que ce gouvernement n’a aucun plan.
Je m’adresse au premier ministre. Monsieur le premier ministre, on vous dit qu’il est urgent que
vous abordiez la situation économique du Nouveau-Brunswick. Il y a 95 % des Néo-Brunswickois
qui travaillent dans de petites et moyennes entreprises, et ce gouvernement n’a rien fait jusqu’à
maintenant. Encore aujourd’hui, il se réjouit que des emplois bien rémunérés en technologie quittent
la province et aillent ailleurs, alors qu’il dépense des milliers de dollars pour faire sa propre
promotion disant qu’il est fier que les gens restent au Nouveau-Brunswick. Comment peut-il
expliquer la situation aujourd’hui?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, I know the member opposite is asking questions on what she read in the
newspaper this morning, but it is actually important to talk to the business leader, with whom I met
on Tuesday. I also had an opportunity to tour the organization. Let me be very clear today: This
company is a New Brunswick success story. Its headquarters are here in New Brunswick and will
remain in New Brunswick, according to my conversation with this individual. No jobs have been
lost. In fact, the company will continue to grow its job base in New Brunswick.
What this company is now doing is reaching out into new markets from a strong foundation on
which it can build. It is no different from McCain, which has expanded into the Chinese market.
When we were in Shanghai, that is where its headquarters are now in the international market. This
is a company that started with financial assistance from the New Brunswick government. It has been
able to build a solid foundation. It is partnering with universities. It is now taking the next step of
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having a larger market access, partnering with other universities. Make no mistake about it: The jobs
that are created in New Brunswick are remaining in New Brunswick. They will continue to grow
in New Brunswick. This company will continue to grow its expertise abroad, while at the same time
keeping its headquarters here in New Brunswick.
Mr. Speaker: We have time for one more question.
Business New Brunswick
Mr. Huntjens: My question is for the Minister of Business New Brunswick, and I hope I get a better
answer than what the previous members got.
Two years ago, I approached you to look into a file that was in existence within Business New
Brunswick with regard to a business on Campobello Island, the Newman boatbuilding enterprise.
At that time, you said that you would look into it. You also said that you would keep me informed
as to the progress of this business. So far, I have heard no reply, except that I have spoken to people
at the business itself. They tell me that your people have given a multitude of excuses as to why it
cannot happen. One of your people even said that if this business were anywhere else but on
Campobello Island, it would be done tomorrow. My question is this: What is being done to help the
Newman boatbuilding enterprise?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: The member knows full well that we cannot discuss the specifics of any particular
business case. I can certainly tell him that in any case where a business opportunity is brought to us,
whether it is a company looking to create a new opportunity or to expand an opportunity, officials
from BNB are willing to meet with that company to discuss the financial situation, to discuss the
proposal, to look at the business plan. If that plan makes sense, if it is a plan that is beneficial to the
people of New Brunswick and to the region, we will work with the company to support its
application. That is how we deal with all files.
033 12:25
The member did acknowledge that there had been contact with the department, so certainly any
matter that have been brought forward have not been ignored. Obviously, we are not in a position
to respond positively to every request. I cannot provide any detailed information with respect to this
file. If the member wishes to have a meeting with me and the officials of Business New Brunswick,
we would certainly be pleased to arrange that meeting and discuss this file.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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Economy
Mr. Alward: Earlier this week, the Premier refused to tell the House how large the provinces’s
deficit was. The Premier said he was going to refuse to move on tax reform until at least next spring.
As I said yesterday, New Brunswickers need this government to act on the economy now, not six
months from now. People are expecting action. As was stated by Hollis Cole, President and CEO
of ADI Group, you will not solve any problems by doing nothing. Will the Premier tell this House
what he is going to do to protect New Brunswick’s economy now?
Hon. S. Graham: All New Brunswickers today are very concerned about what the future holds in
the current economic uncertainty, globally, nationally, and provincially. I can tell you emphatically
today that, this week, our government has launched a comprehensive speech from the throne. Next
week, the Minister of Finance will be providing a fiscal update. In the third week of this session, we
will be tabling the largest infrastructure investment in our province’s history, to help stimulate the
economy. Also that week, we understand we will be receiving the all-party committee report on the
discussion of taxation reform. Our government anticipates that it will be in a position to initiate and
to announce in broad strokes where we will be moving forward.
I can state very clearly today that major belt-tightening was announced this week, and that will be
delivered in the spring budget. However, much more is needed than just fiscal restraint and belt-
tightening today. What is required is a major fiscal stimulus, and our government will be taking a
reasonable and balanced approach in delivering both to the people of New Brunswick.
Mr. Alward: Clearly, the people of New Brunswick are expecting action now, not in the spring
budget. The changes need to take place now. The belt-tightening needs to take place now. It does
not need to start in the spring.
When you are going through a storm, you need a strong ship to withstand that storm. It is called
leadership, and this government is clearly lacking it. Yesterday, I spoke of the need for leadership,
and I outlined a number of measures that would provide an immediate stimulus to our province’s
economy. Will the Premier support our call for an immediate economic stimulus and table the action
plan now? Will he have it come into play now, not in the spring?
Hon. S. Graham: We heard the Conservative plan yesterday: Set up a Web site and have a meeting.
We have taken a very coordinated approach, and the Liberal plan has been very clear. This week,
we announced that we would be putting in place spending restraints. Every single program is under
review, and there will be ample opportunity for both sides of this Chamber to determine the
corrective measures through the budgetary process.
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020 11:20
More important than that, next week, the Minister of Finance is going to be providing a fiscal
update. In the third week, we are going to be launching the most comprehensive and most important
infrastructure budget that our province has ever seen as a major economic stimulus package to
dovetail the spending restraint. In the fourth week, as I have stated in this Chamber, we are hoping
to be in a position to move forward in broad strokes on the discussion on taxation reform, taking into
account the current economic situation. As I stated earlier this week, we need to be prudent, and we
need to be mindful of what New Brunswickers are facing today in terms of hardships. Our
government is cognizant of that, and we will be addressing those issues.
Prior to the recess of this Chamber before Christmas, New Brunswickers will clearly be able to see
the difference between our plan and the nonaction of the plan tabled by the Leader of the Opposition
yesterday.
Mr. Alward: When this government came to power, it committed that it would not raise taxes for
individuals, for small businesses, for medium-sized business, and for corporations. Immediately
following coming into power, the government raised taxes. Part of what we are seeing today is a
direct result of what this government did. At the same time, the tax reforms about which this
government talks would see an increase in the HST, which would impact all New Brunswickers.
Yesterday, I called for an immediate reduction—not six months down the road—in personal taxes,
in small business taxes, in medium-sized business taxes, and in corporations’ taxes. I called for an
immediate reduction of taxes in New Brunswick. Will the Premier support our call for immediate
tax reductions so that New Brunswickers can have more money in their pockets so that they can help
keep this economy going?
Hon. S. Graham: Our government cannot be more clear than it is today. We are very concerned
about New Brunswickers today who may be in jeopardy of losing their jobs, who may have
difficulty in making ends meet, and who are seeing their retirement savings plans dwindle
dramatically in size, because of market volatility. We have stated that, this week, we have launched
a comprehensive throne speech. We have also put in place two committees that have been working
diligently for a month, looking at every single program. We will be bringing forward a budget that
will put in place the spending restraint that is needed.
However, more importantly today, every single business leader and economist across Canada and
the world is saying that much more is needed than just spending restraint. What is needed is a major
economic stimulus package. Our government will be in a very strong position to respond to those
demands and to provide both a responsible and balanced approach . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
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M. Alward : Le premier ministre peut-il s’engager aujourd’hui à ce que son gouvernement
n’augmente pas les impôts personnels ou des entreprises au Nouveau-Brunswick? C’est tout.
Hon. S. Graham: It has to be much more than “c’est tout”. I can tell you today that we are going
to be taking a balanced approach. We have lowered the gas tax in New Brunswick by 4.3¢ per litre.
While the former Conservative government wanted to lower that tax over a four-year period, we did
it on day one of our mandate. Today, New Brunswick has the lowest gas taxes in Atlantic Canada.
In the last budget, we brought forward reductions in the corporate capital tax, and we are on track
to eliminate the corporate capital tax this year, in New Brunswick, one of the first jurisdictions to
do so.
021 11:25
We recognize that New Brunswickers also need tax relief. That is why we launched an all-party
committee to go out and engage New Brunswickers in a discussion on tax reform. It was important
to receive that input. We are going to be receiving the all-party committee report . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Mr. Alward: This government has been very good at spending the taxpayers’ money. Let’s see how
it will be at saving the taxpayers’ money. How will the people of New Brunswick be able to live as
we go forward?
This morning, my following question comes from the young gentleman who is sitting with us today
in the House. His question is this:
My name is Terry Leavitt and I am 28 years of age. I was injured in a diving accident and have been
paralyzed since that event.
Presently I am living at home with my parents, however, as they are getting older, I cannot continue
to rely on their loving care much longer and therefore I have been trying to get an apartment suited
for me.
..............................................................................
My question to you, Mr. Premier, is: Can you tell me what I have to do in order for me to be like
most other young men and women who have a life of their own and can live on their own?
Hon. S. Graham: As the member opposite knows, we cannot refer to specific cases in this
Chamber, out of respect for confidentiality of information. We will take that question under
advisement today and respond, in broad strokes, to the specific case that you have raised.
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I want to talk today about the global issues facing the province of New Brunswick, to make sure that
the economy is the number one issue, so that we can move forward to make sure that every single
New Brunswicker, in every single corner of this province, has an opportunity to come through these
difficult economic times in a better position. The Leader of the Opposition has raised a specific case
today. We will take that question under advisement and respond in this Chamber, as required under
protocol.
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Leader of the Opposition, with this line of questioning, we are going to take a
short recess and confer about the legality and technicality of using terms referring to people who are
in the House. We will take a short recess and get back to you as soon as we are ready.
(The House recessed at 11:28 a.m.
The House resumed at 11:58 a.m.)
022-027 11:55
Speaker’s Ruling
Mr. Speaker: Prior to our recess, the Leader of the Opposition asked a question of the Premier. In
the question, he quoted a question directly from an individual other than a member of the
Legislature. I have serious questions about that. I have deep concerns. According to the rules of the
House of Commons and the Legislature, only a member—and it can be a member from either
side—is allowed to ask a question. Members may pose any question they want, according to the
rules. However, it must be phrased as their question. The authorities are clear on this: Questions
asked during question period should not be questions from constituents.
I would refer members to pages 416 to 433 of House of Commons Procedure and Practice,
2000edition, for a thorough discussion of conduct during question period. I will refer in particular
to a 1994 decision of Speaker Parent, reported on pages 234 and 235 of the debates of January 24,
1994. It advises that a question should not be posed by members who are not members. The book
states that a question should not be a question from a constituent.
I am not questioning the importance of engaging the public. On the contrary, we have a right and
even an obligation to represent people from our ridings. However, their questions have to be from
us, as members of this Legislature. We cannot quote individuals directly in our questions.
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028 12:00
You cannot quote an individual directly in your question. Members have a forum whereby the rules
can be changed, if need be. We have the Procedures Committee, if you need to go there to have the
rules changed. We are looking at rules that have been in place for the last 200 years. All of a sudden,
those rules are being questioned.
I reiterate: I am not trying to stifle anybody. I am just saying that questions have to be asked by us,
as members of the Legislature. I will say again that we cannot quote somebody because, then, it is
not our question we are asking; it is a question from an individual. This is not an open public forum.
This is a forum whereby we, as members of the Legislature, can ask questions of one another, and
not questions of a third party from somewhere else. As I said, we have the right and the obligation
to represent the people in our riding. If there are questions from people in our ridings, then we have
the obligation to ask the questions, but they have to come from each individual in this House, man
or woman. I would sincerely ask all members for their cooperation in this matter.
We stopped the clock during question period. You still have 18 minutes left. I recognize the
Opposition House Leader.
Mr. P. Robichaud: Thank you very much, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: Is this a point of order?
Mr. P. Robichaud: Yes, on your decision, Mr. Speaker.
Mr. Speaker: The decision is final.
Mr. P. Robichaud: As a point of clarification, as you know, Mr. Speaker, I have enormous respect
for you as Speaker of the House. On this side of the House, we have a huge respect for the institution
that you represent. My understanding is that it was very obvious this morning that the Leader of the
Official Opposition was asking a question as a member of the Legislative Assembly, as the MLA
for Woodstock and Leader of the Opposition. If it is a question of wording, we will work on the
wording. I just want to point out our intention. My belief was that, when the Leader of the
Opposition asked the question, he was asking the question as a member of the Legislative Assembly.
We only hope that this decision will not be an attack on what we used to call the people’s House,
the Legislative Assembly, and that it is not an initiative to try to muzzle the official opposition.
Vous savez, il est très important que les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick comprennent très bien
l’importance du rôle d’un député. D’ailleurs, j’ai lu avec grand intérêt les commentaires du leader
parlementaire du gouvernement à la Chambre, qui a dit que c’est la responsabilité première d’un
député de poser des questions au nom de la population que l’on représente. Il est même pratique
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normale de poser des questions de personnes que l’on représente ou de personnes qui se présentent
ici, à l’Assemblée législative, mais qui n’ont pas l’occasion de le faire.
Alors, Monsieur le président, nous acceptons votre décision. Nous allons voir à ce que la façon dont
nous posons nos questions reflète vraiment le fait que ce sont des questions posées par un député,
pour un député, aux ministres et au premier ministre à la Chambre. Nous allons continuer notre
bonne initiative de demander aux gens de nous faire part de leurs commentaires, ce qui a
énormément de succès. Merci beaucoup.
Le président : Je veux simplement vous rassurer, Monsieur le leader parlementaire de l’opposition.
La question telle que posée venait d’une personne. On citait une personne, ce qu’on ne peut pas
faire. Ce n’est pas une question de vouloir empêcher les parlementaires de poser des questions, pas
du tout. Comme vous l’avez mentionné, la question peut être reposée d’une façon différente, je n’ai
aucun problème avec cela. Lorsque la question est posée, on ne peut pas citer quelqu’un. Voilà le
point épineux.
We now have 18 minutes and 50 seconds. The floor is yours.
Oral Questions
Mr. Alward: Mr. Leavitt has been trying for many months to find adequate housing; however, he
has been given little hope from the Department of Social Development that he will be able to access
adequate housing. Perhaps the Premier can answer this question for us, if we deal with it in the
abstract. What plan does this government have to help disabled nonseniors find a suitable living
environment that gives them their own independence?
029 12:05
Hon. S. Graham: I want to address three points that I think are important to be mentioned in this
Chamber on the issue of housing. Tomorrow, I am going to be meeting with the secretariat on the
status of disabled persons, and the board is going to be reviewing a number of options at a meeting
that is very important. Coupled with that, today, we launched a very important initiative on poverty
reduction in New Brunswick which is going to tie into the issue of housing, because that is a critical
component of addressing poverty.
However, a third issue that is important to mention this morning, speaking in the context of a
coordinated approach, is that there has yet to be a national housing agreement signed with the
government of Canada. Very clearly, this agreement has expired. I know that, when we met with the
Council of the Federation, all Premiers emphatically stated that this was one of the priorities,
especially in this time of economic uncertainty. Nothing could be stronger than an economic
stimulus package. I have seen the federal government come forward with some form of aid in a
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national housing agreement that could be partnered at the provincial level to employ many
tradespeople, and, at the same time, provide adequate housing.
This is a situation that is very important to our government. We are going to continue to lobby the
federal government to honour a commitment that it made during the last federal election, because
the previous agreement has expired. We have also struck the new nonpartisan poverty reduction
initiative today, which will be traveling through the province. Also, I am going to be meeting with
the Premier’s Council on the Status of Disabled Persons tomorrow morning, and I am sure that this
issue will be raised there as well.
Mr. Holder: I hope it is not out of parliamentary tradition that, before I ask my question today, I
say hello to my daughter Maggie, who is home sick today. She said she was going to watch question
period this morning.
Housing
My questions are for the Minister of Social Development. On this side of the House, as the
government knows, we have commended it on its initiative with respect to poverty reduction.
However, one of the things that we called for on this side of the House, if one thing is apparent to
me, is that the key to reducing poverty is providing safe, affordable housing in this province. On this
side of the House, we have called for an all-party committee that could start work this winter, in the
cold months—a most appropriate time to do it—to travel the province and ask New Brunswickers
what they are experiencing. It has been a long time since housing has been reviewed. We would like
to do this so that we can report back to the poverty reduction committee and help it along. Will the
government reconsider and put in place this committee?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is a pleasure to rise in the House today to talk about housing, because, often,
we do not hear a lot about it. I can tell you that our government has been moving forward on the file
very silently, but with much progress. Some $43 million of infrastructure has gone into housing in
the province in the last two years. We have increased the number of new homes in New Brunswick
by over 450. The file is moving forward. As we have stated that we would, we brought back the
renewal of the New Brunswick Housing Corporation. This corporation has been working with
partners. We have partners in the area of disabilities with Randy Dickinson. We have partners with
municipalities. We have partners with nonprofits as well as partners with entrepreneurs to make sure
that we continue to move the file forward. We have been lobbying the federal government. I have
been in Ottawa with my fellow ministers to try to get new housing agreements.
Mr. Holder: It is clear that the government has no intention of setting up an all-party committee.
My next question with respect to safe and affordable housing is this. In the last days that we were
in office, we passed legislation in this House that would protect tenants and boarders under The
Residential Tenancies Act. Those amendments passed in the Legislature. They have yet to be
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proclaimed. The government has sat on those amendments for two years. What will the government
do to reassure us that the bill will be proclaimed and that those people will have the rights of all
other tenants across the province?
030 12:10
Hon. Mr. Byrne: It is somewhat ironic that these amendments were brought in by the former
government, which did not proclaim them. The former government had every opportunity to
proclaim those amendments and take action, but it decided, consciously, not to do so because it
knew that it did not want to administer those regulations.
We have carried out a significant undertaking to reform the services provided by the Office of the
Rentalsman. We have brought that office from the Department of Justice into Service New
Brunswick. We are modernizing the Office of the Rentalsman. We are ensuring that service is
available through all the 37 service centres throughout New Brunswick, so that people will have
greater access. We are looking at the whole program of residential tenancies to see what
improvements can be made. Certainly, this is a far cry from what was done in the past by the former
government.
Mr. Holder: I am not going to take a backseat to this government any day when it comes to the
issue of slum landlords. We had a conference in Saint John that came up with a series of
recommendations, many of which are now in effect. This is one that we did not get an opportunity
to proclaim in the last few days of our government. This government has had two years. It said it
was ready to govern. Why is it not respecting the rights of these tenants? If the government wants
to deal with poverty, it should make sure that these people have all the rights of any other tenant in
this province.
Hon. Mr. Byrne: We would do a great disservice to the people of New Brunswick if we did not
ensure that the government was responsible in addressing this issue. We obviously want to benefit
the people most in need. We need to thoroughly review the nature of these amendments, which
appear to have been made on the fly by the previous government. The last thing we want to do is
create a problem as opposed to providing a solution. If we make these changes too onerous, there
may be residential tenancies that are not available. Perhaps owners will say that it is too much of a
hassle with the new changes to the program and they will not provide residential housing. Those
people we are hoping to impact positively the most may actually be hurt if we rush into this without
thinking out the implications and without doing it right.
Mr. Betts: Many New Brunswickers are hurting. Several people have come into our offices, saying
that their rent has gone up from $600 to $900, and there are no controls. They respect the free
enterprise system, but they are hurting. For many people, heating costs have gone up. The Liberal
government raised the personal income tax and small business tax. Property taxes are up. The thing
I am concerned about in my riding, which depends on the retail sector, with shopping centres, is that
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the government may raise the HST, which will hurt that sector. There are tough choices to make that
many New Brunswickers face, for food, heat, housing, and medicine. We have had our first report
card on the homeless, and about 1 450 people were homeless in the Moncton area last year.
My question to the minister is this: How many New Brunswickers are waiting for subsidized
housing? What is the turnaround time for these units? We know that about 1 000 people are waiting,
and there are reports that some units were empty for a while. Could we have an update on that?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: It is appropriate today in the House, with the questions that we were able to
launch and share with everyone, the co-Chairs for the new poverty initiative . . . It is all very linked
when we look at housing, income levels, health card needs, and child care. Housing is part of it. It
is a complex issue. We have been working diligently on the file of housing, as I have already stated.
In Moncton, we have seen our occupancy rates increase. In the province, our occupancy rate for
housing is 97%, which is very, very high.
031 12:15
Unfortunately, though, we still do have wait lists. We still have 4 000 people in New Brunswick
waiting for housing, and that is why today it is so important that we all reach out a hand and work
together to make sure that we can battle poverty to make this housing crisis go away.
Mr. Betts: This is certainly something both sides of this Chamber are concerned about and want to
work cooperatively on and be involved. There is not necessarily an incentive for some of the owners
of these units to report as empty if they are being paid for them. My question is: When one of these
units is vacant, do government officials inspect it to see what repairs are needed and then give the
owners a certain amount of time? What steps has the Department of Social Development taken to
monitor the turnaround time for subsidized units so that people in need can have proper housing?
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: Thank you for the question. It is a concern because there is absolutely no
benefit to anyone to have an empty unit. That being said, we have contractual rights with landlords
that have rent subsidies, so a certain amount of time is allowed to elapse to make sure the unit can
be turned around and a deserving person put into it. We also have a policy in the department to look
at turnaround levels to make sure that the unit can be occupied within 60 days.
It is very important to remember that we have one of the oldest housing stocks in Canada. To my
critic opposite, in his riding alone—Crescent Valley, Churchill Boulevard—in Saint John, this
government is undertaking one of the largest revitalizations of a project that was built in the late
1950s. We recognized that this project needed to be torn down and rebuilt in the new way, with the
dreams and the hopes of the people who live there as to what their community is going to look like.
You can be assured that the housing file is well attended. I have asked for monthly reports to come
to my desk so that I can see the waiting lists and vacancies.
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Emploi
Mme Dubé : Alors que je pensais que les choses ne pouvaient pas nécessairement empirer, ici au
Nouveau-Brunswick, en lisant le Telegraph-Journal de ce matin, j’apprends que l’une des
compagnies PQA était prête à faire de la création d’emplois au Nouveau-Brunswick, jusqu’à 500
nouveaux emplois, et qu’on a accepté de laisser partir ces emplois pour une autre province.
On reconnaît le potentiel de nos petites et moyennes entreprises. Pour cette entreprise, en particulier,
notre gouvernement a investi plus de 325 000 $ pour l’aider à croître.
Ma question est pour le premier ministre. Qu’a-t-il fait ou que n’a-t-il pas fait, justement, pour aider
cette compagnie à garder et à créer des emplois qui sont extrêmement nécessaires dans cette
province, surtout qu’il s’agit d’entrepreneurs de notre propre province?
L’hon. M. Byrne : L’article dans le Telegraph-Journal de ce matin a une mauvaise intonation. Le
gouvernement a aidé la compagnie dans la création de son fonctionnement. Il l’a aussi aidée en ce
qui a trait à la création d’emplois et à l’embauche de nouveaux employés.
Le gouvernement va aussi aider la compagnie dans l’avenir. Le gouvernement et mes collègues ont
assisté cette compagnie et travaillent avec celle-ci chaque semaine. Par exemple, la semaine
dernière, la compagnie a participé à une mission commerciale à Toronto. L’information dans le
journal est de la mauvaise information.
Mme Dubé : Monsieur le ministre, êtes-vous prêt à nier que cette même compagnie a annoncé qu’elle
avait créé 200 emplois en Nouvelle-Écosse? Ce sont 200 emplois qui auraient pu être créés, ici, au
Nouveau-Brunswick. Le ministre peut-il au moins clarifier cette situation?
032 12:20
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I would be glad to clarify. As I have indicated, we have worked with this company
since its inception. We have worked with it to create jobs. It has over 100 jobs here in Fredericton.
It has jobs additionally in Moncton. It is growing. It is expanding its operations here. It has its
headquarters here. It is the company’s intention that its headquarters will still be here.
This is a good news story. This is a company that is expanding its base of operations. It is looking
at the Nova Scotia market in addition to its growth in the New Brunswick market. Like many
companies in New Brunswick that have grown and become successful, it is branching out to new
markets. It is no different from McCain looking at markets across the world.
This is great news. We have worked with this company. We have supported it. We have worked
with it to develop its business plans. We have been involved with it all along with respect to its
expansions, and the company is interested in growing in New Brunswick, as well. We will be there.
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Mme Dubé : Le ministre peut danser autant qu’il veut, mais la réalité ce matin, c’est que des emplois
sont perdus partout dans la province sous le présent gouvernement, étant donné qu’il a augmenté
les impôts et brisé l’économie de cette province. Voir le ministre se lever à la Chambre ce matin
pour dire qu’il se réjouit que 200 emplois soient partis en Nouvelle-Écosse quand ils auraient pu être
ici, au Nouveau-Brunswick, démontre encore que ce gouvernement n’a aucun plan.
Je m’adresse au premier ministre. Monsieur le premier ministre, on vous dit qu’il est urgent que
vous abordiez la situation économique du Nouveau-Brunswick. Il y a 95 % des Néo-Brunswickois
qui travaillent dans de petites et moyennes entreprises, et ce gouvernement n’a rien fait jusqu’à
maintenant. Encore aujourd’hui, il se réjouit que des emplois bien rémunérés en technologie quittent
la province et aillent ailleurs, alors qu’il dépense des milliers de dollars pour faire sa propre
promotion disant qu’il est fier que les gens restent au Nouveau-Brunswick. Comment peut-il
expliquer la situation aujourd’hui?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, I know the member opposite is asking questions on what she read in the
newspaper this morning, but it is actually important to talk to the business leader, with whom I met
on Tuesday. I also had an opportunity to tour the organization. Let me be very clear today: This
company is a New Brunswick success story. Its headquarters are here in New Brunswick and will
remain in New Brunswick, according to my conversation with this individual. No jobs have been
lost. In fact, the company will continue to grow its job base in New Brunswick.
What this company is now doing is reaching out into new markets from a strong foundation on
which it can build. It is no different from McCain, which has expanded into the Chinese market.
When we were in Shanghai, that is where its headquarters are now in the international market. This
is a company that started with financial assistance from the New Brunswick government. It has been
able to build a solid foundation. It is partnering with universities. It is now taking the next step of
having a larger market access, partnering with other universities. Make no mistake about it: The jobs
that are created in New Brunswick are remaining in New Brunswick. They will continue to grow
in New Brunswick. This company will continue to grow its expertise abroad, while at the same time
keeping its headquarters here in New Brunswick.
Mr. Speaker: We have time for one more question.
Business New Brunswick
Mr. Huntjens: My question is for the Minister of Business New Brunswick, and I hope I get a better
answer than what the previous members got.
Two years ago, I approached you to look into a file that was in existence within Business New
Brunswick with regard to a business on Campobello Island, the Newman boatbuilding enterprise.
At that time, you said that you would look into it. You also said that you would keep me informed
as to the progress of this business. So far, I have heard no reply, except that I have spoken to people
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at the business itself. They tell me that your people have given a multitude of excuses as to why it
cannot happen. One of your people even said that if this business were anywhere else but on
Campobello Island, it would be done tomorrow. My question is this: What is being done to help the
Newman boatbuilding enterprise?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: The member knows full well that we cannot discuss the specifics of any particular
business case. I can certainly tell him that in any case where a business opportunity is brought to us,
whether it is a company looking to create a new opportunity or to expand an opportunity, officials
from BNB are willing to meet with that company to discuss the financial situation, to discuss the
proposal, to look at the business plan. If that plan makes sense, if it is a plan that is beneficial to the
people of New Brunswick and to the region, we will work with the company to support its
application. That is how we deal with all files.
033 12:25
The member did acknowledge that there had been contact with the department, so certainly any
matter that have been brought forward have not been ignored. Obviously, we are not in a position
to respond positively to every request. I cannot provide any detailed information with respect to this
file. If the member wishes to have a meeting with me and the officials of Business New Brunswick,
we would certainly be pleased to arrange that meeting and discuss this file.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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Property Tax
Mr. Alward: Last Friday afternoon, New Brunswickers got a bad taste of one of the oldest tricks
in the book: a late afternoon press release telling them that their property tax assessments were
increasing. Aside from trying to pull a fast one on the people of the province, the Graham
government is now going to collect more money from New Brunswickers than ever before, through
increased property axes. However, the government neglected to inform New Brunswickers as to how
much the province will collect due to the increase in assessments.
My question is for the Premier. How much money will the province receive from the increase in tax
assessments?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I think it is important to point out that, certainly, when we are dealing with owner-
occupied residential properties, the value of those increased assessments accrues directly to the
municipalities, not to the province. I point that out because there is an opportunity. If municipalities
choose to address the issue by lowering their tax rates, they have the opportunity to do so.
These are difficult times. The federal government is looking at how it can practice restraint. Our
government is looking at how it practices restraint. I think it behooves municipal governments to
do the same. Yes, they have increased costs; there is no question of that. Still, in this time of
restraint, perhaps it is time to look at whether they can be a little more prudent in terms of how they
manage their budgetary funding. Perhaps they can give a break to the taxpayer.
Mr. Alward: It is interesting this afternoon that the Premier decided not to answer the question. In
fact, the Minister of Business New Brunswick avoided the question. My question was related to
provincial real property tax. Allowing property taxes to increase so significantly is simply a way for
the Premier to implement yet another backdoor tax grab. What is absolutely irresponsible is that this
is taking place in the midst of an economic crisis at a level we have never seen before. At the same
time the economy is slowing, at the same time property sales and property values are decreasing,
this government has the nerve to try to take more money out of the pockets of New Brunswickers.
Once again, will the Premier confirm how much money the government will take from taxpayers
through this backdoor tax grab?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: I think that what is important to clarify here is that, despite what we are seeing
in the world markets, we are not seeing the same impact reflected in the New Brunswick real estate
market. There are projects that represent considerable growth throughout the province, and the
numbers do not reflect that. When we look at market sales throughout the province, we have a
relatively strong market. It may be that, in the future, there will be changes in the residential housing
market, but we can only set the assessment rates based on the facts of what the market is doing in
New Brunswick. We cannot set them based on conjecture or on what may happen in the future. We
have facts right up to November of this year as to how the markets have performed.
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Unfortunately—or fortunately, depending on how you want to look at it—the market has been
strong. We have a strong, buoyant economy here, as reflected in the price of housing and the
assessed values.
Mr. Alward: Let the record show that the Premier again refused to answer the question. Clearly,
we have a Minister of Business New Brunswick who does not know, who is completely
disconnected from what is taking place in New Brunswick. Perhaps he is spending too much time
in a glass house.
017 14:10
The reality of what is taking place here is that we have a perfect storm brewing in New Brunswick.
This storm includes increased taxes for individuals, for small businesses, and now for property
owners. In fact, the government’s own member for Moncton North has said: “What did we get from
this government? What did we get as tools for growth? We got stealth taxation--higher property
taxes through higher assessments.”
Will the Premier please tell the members of this House what his plan is to help individuals and
families who keep falling further and further behind because of sky-high property taxes?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: With respect to the particular figures, municipal revenues have increased by about
$37 million. The provincial revenues, in the 2009 assessment year, would have increases in the area
of $24.3 million. Again, there is an opportunity to provide relief. Those municipalities that have
experienced a significant rise in their assessment base have an opportunity to provide that relief back
to the taxpayers through adjustments in their tax rates.
We are very cognizant of the impact of increasing assessments. We empathize with people who pay
more taxes, but the fact of the matter is that the assessment process is in line with generally accepted
assessment principles that are used throughout North America. Obviously, we are awaiting the
results of the Finn report, and we will look at that report with respect to its recommendations. It
would be premature to do anything in advance of that report.
The other thing that we have done, of course, is that we have made a commitment to look at the
assessment process, as recommended by the Ombudsman, and we will be bringing forth measures
that are designed to improve the appeals process in the very near future.
Mr. Alward: The Minister of Business New Brunswick is quick to give advice to municipalities.
He had an opportunity to show leadership today and to make changes in areas on which the
government has an impact, but he chose not to. Obviously, the Premier and the Minister of Business
New Brunswick do not realize that a perfect economic storm is brewing in New Brunswick. I will
give the Minister of Business New Brunswick or the Premier an opportunity to answer this. The
Minister of Business New Brunswick has said that the government is waiting for the Finn report.
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Will the Premier tell this House when the report of the Commission on Local Governance will be
released? He has had it since July, but he is still sitting on it. We want to see what the commissioner
has recommended and what will be done on property taxes.
Hon. S. Graham: Today, with the turbulent economic times, both nationally and internationally,
what is needed now more than ever is stability. What is also needed is a balanced approach to
providing leadership which our government is doing today. We very clearly indicated that, this
week, the Minister of Finance is going to be providing a fiscal update to the people of New
Brunswick. Next week, we are going to be bringing forward the largest capital budget in our
province’s history, which is part of a stimulus package to allow our economy to remain in a better
situation compared to other economies throughout North America. In the fourth week, we are going
to be responding in broad strokes on tax reform, which will put more money in the pockets of New
Brunswickers.
This four-pronged approach, which started with the throne speech, last week, indicated that there
was going to be belt tightening on the side of government. Today, we are asking municipalities to
undertake the same initiative. The Minister Responsible for Service New Brunswick has been very
clear. A balanced approach has to be undertaken, and we are seeking that balanced approach.
Finally, to answer the last question of the Leader of the Opposition, the report from Mr. Finn on
local governance will be tabled in this House prior to the Christmas recess.
Taxe professionnelle
M. Alward : Une augmentation de 7,2 % ne donne pas la stabilité. Puisque le premier ministre n’a
apparemment aucun plan pour aider les personnes et les familles à affronter à la crise économique,
il pourrait peut-être dire à la Chambre s’il a un plan pour diminuer les impôts fonciers pour les
petites, moyennes et grandes entreprises. S’il a un plan, quel est-il?
018 14:10
L’hon. S. Graham : Je ne suis pas certain si le chef de l’opposition a entendu la réponse que je
viens de donner, mais c’est très clair : nous avons un plan d’action avec la réforme fiscale qui va
mettre plus d’argent dans les poches des gens du Nouveau-Brunswick.
Aujourd’hui, c’est clair que notre plan va stimuler l’économie, parce que la stabilité est notre
première priorité et que c’est nécessaire d’avoir une réaction balancée. Ce que nous entendons
aujourd’hui, c’est la critique de l’opposition, mais aucun plan en place pour faire avancer l’agenda
de l’autosuffisance. De notre côté, c’est très clair : nous avons un plan, et, avant Noël, les gens du
Nouveau-Brunswick pourront voir la différence entre le plan de non-action de l’opposition et notre
plan d’action.
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Municipalities
Mr. Alward: Yes, this week, New Brunswickers will see the difference between the two sides,
beginning with the speech from the throne, which had nothing tied to the crisis that is taking place
in New Brunswick’s economy. So far, we have learned that this Premier does not have a plan to
work with individuals and families. Strike one. The Premier does not have a plan to help small
businesses and corporations. Strike two. Now let’s see if the Premier is going to take another chance
to strike out. Will he tell this House today about his plan to help those municipalities that will not
gain any new revenue this year, so that they can continue to deliver the same level of services next
year?
Hon. S. Graham: It is important, sometimes, for the Leader of the Opposition to deviate from the
script that is in front of him, because, very clearly, today we have stated . . . I am not sure if he is
not listening or if he is concentrating on the message in front of him. I respect that. However, we
very clearly stated that, with the capital budget that is coming out next week, this will be a major
component of an economic stimulus package for New Brunswick.
When the Leader of the Opposition wants to criticize, it is important to note that we are one of the
few jurisdictions today that is going to provide a thorough economic update of the financial situation
in this province. Nova Scotia has not yet brought forward its statement. Last week, the government
of Canada was criticized heavily by leading economists for not providing information that could
truly reflect the state of the Canadian economy. There was no fiscal stimulus package attached with
that.
We are taking a two-pronged approach today. We are learning that, during these turbulent times,
New Brunswickers and Canadians are looking for balanced leadership. That is what we are going
to be providing: responsible leadership and a balanced approach. Clearly, by the end of this session,
New Brunswickers will see a clear plan of action on this side of the Chamber and empty criticism
that rings hollow on that side of the Chamber.
M. Volpé : Ma question est pour le ministre des Gouvernements locaux. Maintenant qu’on connaît
le plan du premier ministre pour aider la population, soit celui d’augmenter les taxes et les impôts,
on voudrait savoir quel est le plan du ministre des Gouvernements locaux, étant donné que les
municipalités attendent toujours pour leur subvention sans condition, à savoir si elle sera renouvelée,
réduite ou éliminée.
Le budget des municipalités se termine à la fin décembre et non à la fin mars, et elles doivent
présenter un budget à la province pour que celui-ci soit accepté. Un plan de quatre ans a été mis en
place en 2004, et il se termine cette année. Ceci était pour permettre aux municipalités et au
gouvernement de mettre un nouveau plan en place pour 2009. Le gouvernement s’est traîné les pieds
et aucun plan n’est prêt.
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Monsieur le ministre, qu’entendez-vous faire et quand allez-vous annoncer aux municipalités le
montant d’argent qu’elles vont recevoir?
Hon. B. LeBlanc: I recognize that the current year’s funding mechanism for municipalities ends in
December 2008. With the ending of the current funding mechanism, we will be bringing in an
amendment to the Municipal Assistance Act. Our government will table this amendment this week
in this session of the Legislature.
019 14:15
M. Volpé : Je suis convaincu que les municipalités du Nouveau-Brunswick seront contentes, parce
que la dernière fois que cette loi a été modifiée, c’était quand M. McKenna était au pouvoir. Il avait
pris les subventions sans condition d’au-delà de 100 millions et les avait réduites à 60 millions. Je
suis convaincu que les municipalités attendront les résultats, je dirais, avec anxiété.
Ma prochaine question est pour le ministre des Gouvernement locaux. Vous savez, pour venir en
aide aux provinces canadiennes, le fédéral utilise ce qu’on appelle la péréquation afin de s’assurer
que toutes les provinces peuvent livrer des services semblables à un coût semblable. Vous savez,
Monsieur le ministre, surtout depuis les deux dernières années, il y a des municipalités au Nouveau-
Brunswick qui ont de très gros défis financiers. Elles ont une assiette fiscale négative au lieu de
positive. Certaines municipalités auront de très légères augmentations, mais elles devront tout de
même continuer de livrer les services. Quel est votre plan pour aider les municipalités qui sont aux
prises avec de sérieux défis financiers? Je ne parle pas d’une augmentation de 7 % comme le
Nouveau-Brunswick va recevoir. Il y a des municipalités qui ne recevront pas assez d’argent en
impôt foncier. Quel plan avez-vous pour les aider?
Hon. B. LeBlanc: We will be contacting and speaking with each municipality that is not showing
growth to see what we in Local Government can offer. It is our goal to make sure that each
municipality gets the proper counseling from our department.
M. Volpé : Si quelqu’un doit recevoir du counselling, c’est bien le ministre des Finances. Je suis
convaincu que les municipalités pourraient le conseiller.
On voit que le ministre des Finances verra une augmentation de ses recettes d’au-delà de 7 % et on
vient d’entendre que quelque 21 millions de plus de l’assiette fiscale iront à la province du Nouveau-
Brunswick. C’est beaucoup plus facile de gérer une augmentation des recettes de 7,2 % que de gérer
une diminution des recettes de 1 % ou de 2 % . Monsieur le ministre, vous avez dit que vous
donnerez du counselling, mais ce n’est pas ce dont ont besoin les municipalités. Elles ont besoin de
fonds pour s’assurer de pouvoir continuer de livrer les services à leurs collectivités. Vous êtes un
ancien conseiller municipal. Quand il y a un problème financier, on peut trouver du counselling
local. Il y a des gens très, très compétents dans ce domaine. Les municipalités ont besoin d’argent.
Ma question revient : Quel plan avez-vous en place? Combien d’argent avez-vous mis de côté pour
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aider les municipalités qui devront continuer à livrer les mêmes services à leur population avec
moins d’argent?
Hon. S. Graham: I have been listening to the former Leader of the Opposition speak, and I think
it is important to set the record straight. Clearly, the former Minister of Finance is stating today that
the last time the unconditional grant formula changed was under the administration of Frank
McKenna. Actually, it was when the former Minister of Finance cut the unconditional grant by 10%.
We recognize that the former Minister of Finance has a very short memory and he forgets about that
10% cut. I can state today that, with the legislation that the Minister of Local Government will bring
forward this week, there will be no cut of 10%, as the former government did.
Petites et moyennes entreprises
Mme Dubé : L’année dernière, les entreprises ont été durement touchées par des augmentations au
niveau de leurs impôts, des coûts d’énergie et des impôts fonciers. Ma question est pour le ministre
des Entreprises Nouveau-Brunswick. Vu la crise économique qui est train de s’installer, ma question
est très simple. Monsieur le ministre, quelles mesures comptez-vous mettre en place pour aider nos
petites et moyennes entreprises ainsi que nos grandes entreprises à traverser cette crise?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: As my colleague the Minister of Finance said yesterday in the Moncton region,
we will be binging forth a plan that will involve changes to the taxation system, which we believe
will be welcomed by the business community. In addition to that, we are using many of our existing
programs to support business. For example, we are helping businesses make strategic investments
and assisting them with productivity enhancements and energy efficiency. Just recently, we helped
various members of the forest industry. We have worked in partnership with the Grand Lake Timber
Chipman sawmill. We have worked with the Fraser, Flakeboard, and Chaleur sawmills. All those
measures were in partnership with those companies so that they could make strategic investments
to reduce their costs to make them more competitive for the long term.
020 14:20
We will continue to work with industry to assist it, whether it be through the development of new
trade markets, the development of new technology, or a system to become more energy-efficient.
Business New Brunswick will be there to partner with our New Brunswick companies to assist them.
Mme Dubé : On peut voir dans la réponse que le ministre vient de nous donner que le gouvernement
ne comprend pas la situation économique du Nouveau-Brunswick et du Canada. Le gouvernement
aurait peut-être dû inviter son premier ministre et les membres du Cabinet à s’asseoir avec notre chef
et tous les leaders du secteur économique au Nouveau-Brunswick.
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Tout ce que le ministre vient de nous énoncer, ce sont toutes des choses qui sont faites couramment
par tous les gouvernements. Les employés du ministère des Entreprises Nouveau-Brunswick font
ce travail jour après jour depuis plusieurs décennies.
Nous vivons une situation extraordinaire au Nouveau-Brunswick. Le premier ministre l’a lui-même
mentionné ce matin. Il a dit qu’il devrait prendre des mesures spéciales. La question que je pose au
ministre des Entreprises Nouveau-Brunswick est simple. Nous vivons une situation exceptionnelle.
Quels sont les mesures et le plan d’action concrets et tangibles? Nous ne voulons pas un autre plan
d’étude. Quels sont les plans concrets et tangibles qui peuvent être mis en place aujourd’hui pour
aider les petites, moyennes et grandes entreprises du Nouveau-Brunswick à continuer de croître et
d’offrir des emplois aux gens de partout au Nouveau-Brunswick?
Hon. S. Graham: I think it is important to note that, last week, we saw the critic responsible for this
department do her research by reading the newspaper. Never once did she contact the company
regarding her question. Never once did she visit the company regarding the question she was asking.
Very clearly, the information that she presented was not factual. We are working every day to create
jobs in New Brunswick. In fact, just this morning, this minister was in the Miramichi region,
creating over 100 jobs in the new aerospace industry.
Talking about the importance of consultation, I have to say that I was heartened yesterday to see a
Globe and Mail article written by Judith Maxwell, former head of the Economic Council of Canada
and the Canadian Policy Research Network. The article in the Globe and Mail was entitled “With
the right skills, a community can lead its own recovery”. It goes on to say:
The secret ingredient for recovery is to encourage communities to take responsibility for their own
futures. New Brunswick Premier Shawn Graham talks about self-sufficiency as “standing on our
own two feet.”
Premier Graham is trying to model a new style of governance. He is offering New Brunswickers a
voice in making policy choices. His government is learning to convene business, labour, education
institutions, community leaders and the public, listen to their ideas, and then partner with them in
problem solving on such issues as skills development, poverty reduction and community
development.
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Hon. S. Graham: This is a national publication that recognizes the leadership we are providing in
this province.
Mme Dubé : D’un côté, le premier ministre critique les articles qui sont publiés dans les journaux.
En même temps, il se lève à la Chambre pour citer des articles. Le message est contradictoire.
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Néanmoins, le premier ministre devrait peut-être s’asseoir avec les leaders du secteur économique.
Ce serait déjà pas mal mieux. L’invitation a été lancée par notre chef.
Notre chef a mentionné à plusieurs reprises qu’il voulait offrir un nouveau style de leadership.
Comme nous n’avons pas encore de plan, les gens attendent encore partout dans la province. On ne
veut quand même pas que la situation économique s’aggrave, donc il faut prendre des mesures et
des plans d’action tangibles et concrets.
J’ai une question simple pour le ministre des Finances, avec une idée parmi tant d’autres de ce qui
pourrait être fait. Pourquoi ne pas répartir la facture des impôts fonciers sur une période de 12 mois
au lieu d’exiger un paiement immédiat, avec les intérêts en surplus pour ceux qui ne sont pas en
mesure de le faire. Cela pourrait donner l’occasion aux petites et moyennes entreprises de garder
un peu de leur argent et de pouvoir la réinvestir dans leur entreprise pour mieux traverser ces temps
difficiles.
Ma question est très simple. Vous voulez des solutions et des exemples, notre chef et notre équipe
en ont. En voici une. J’aimerais entendre le ministre des Entreprises Nouveau-Brunswick à savoir
s’il est prêt à adopter une telle mesure?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, the article that I was quoting from contained factual information. On that
side of the Chamber, because the information was not correct and because the critic did not even call
the company, she did not present factual information in this Chamber.
It is important to note that, as we move forward with a plan to reduce taxes, this will be a major
stimulus to put money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers. At the same time, it will
encourage New Brunswickers to return home. It will allow the sons and daughters of New
Brunswickers watching today, and their grandchildren, to be able to call New Brunswick home.
021 14:25
We are going to be putting in place a competitive tax package, as well, for businesses in the
province. This will put us in a much better competitive position compared to neighbouring provinces
such as Nova Scotia. It will even put us in a position that will be enviable across the entire country.
I will say today what we have stated all along: In week 4 of this session, prior to the recess for the
Christmas break, there will be a clear plan of action, with a balanced and responsible approach to
dealing with this economic crisis. We will be putting in place a new stimulus package.
Mr. Williams: We have a Premier who believes in the national news, but not in New Brunswick
news.
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Impôt foncier
Avec ce gouvernement, l’évaluation des propriétés n’a pas cessé d’augmenter, ce qui pousse
également les impôts fonciers à la hausse. De nombreuses personnes, en particulier nos aînés,
disposent d’un revenu fixe qui n’augmente pas autant que leur facture de taxe foncière.
Le ministre des Gouvernements locaux peut-il informer la Chambre quelles sont les actions que son
gouvernement compte prendre pour aider les gens à revenu fixe qui sont aux prises avec des impôts
fonciers toujours à la hausse?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: As the opposition members are aware, we have a low-income seniors supplement.
They know, as well, that there is a residential tax rebate for low-income New Brunswickers, which
provides relief from taxes.
When I spoke earlier and suggested that municipalities have a responsibility as well, I recognized
that municipalities have increased costs in many instances. However, if we look at the past six years,
the consumer price index has increased by approximately 9.8%. There are some municipal budgets
that have increased by 40%, 50%, 75%, or more. In this time of restraint, when all levels of
government are cognizant of the need to do more with less, perhaps there are some ways that some
of our municipalities that are gaining more revenue through their assessments can look at how they
can manage a little better and perhaps pass some tax savings on to taxpayers. This would assist
taxpayers across the board, including seniors.
M. Williams : On voit ici un gouvernement qui ne comprend pas dans quelle situation se retrouve
nos aînés et les autres personnes à revenu fixe. Beaucoup ont vu leur propriété augmenter en valeur,
et cela a un impact direct sur leur facture d’impôt foncier.
Pour une fois, ce gouvernement pourrait-il démontrer du leadership? Ma question est encore pour
le ministre des Gouvernements locaux. Le gouvernement va-t-il proposer un plan valable pour venir
en aide à ces gens?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: We have talked about a plan. As a matter of fact, just a few moments ago, the
Premier indicated that, in the very near future, we will be bringing forward a plan to assist New
Brunswickers, to assist small and medium-sized businesses, and to assist individuals. We have
indicated that we have a clear plan that we will lay out, and it will be of benefit to New
Brunswickers across the board. When it is appropriate to bring those measures forward, the House
will certainly learn of those measures, which we believe will be received positively by all New
Brunswickers.
M. Williams : On voit ici un ministre qui parle d’un plan mais pas d’action.
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Lors de la dernière élection, notre parti avait proposé un plafond de 3 % sur l’évaluation de l’impôt
foncier, et je peux vous assurer que cette promesse aurait été tenue, si nous avions formé le
gouvernement. Depuis 2006, nous avons également déposé deux projets de loi qui permettaient une
telle mesure, mais le présent gouvernement les a refusés.
022 14:30
Alors, ne venez pas nous dire que nous n’apportons pas de solution pour aider les propriétaires-
occupants au Nouveau-Brunswick. Encore une fois, pour le ministre des Gouvernements locaux,
avez-vous un plan concret qui, dès l’an prochain, évitera à nos aînés et toute autre personne avec un
revenu fixe, de se trouver devant des taux d’évaluation et d’impôts fonciers qui deviennent
excessifs? Quel est votre plan, Monsieur le ministre?
Hon. Mr. Byrne: This government has a record of assisting seniors that is second to none. On our
first day in office, we eliminated the consideration of personal assets for those seniors who need
nursing care. We have increased the number of hours for nursing care in nursing homes. We have
increased the number of hours of home care. We have raised the Low-Income Seniors’ Benefit. My
colleagues the Minister of Health and the Minister of Social Development have taken many
measures to help seniors.
The cap that is proposed by the member is a strategy that has been rejected by jurisdiction after
jurisdiction, not only for the distortions that it would create, but for the unbalance that it would
create. It actually penalizes the very people that it is brought in to assist. Caps are artificial. Nova
Scotia has caps and they have come under widespread condemnation. It is looking at revisiting
those. Other jurisdictions that have looked at capping are looking at getting away from capping
because it is a disservice to the taxpayer.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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Senior Citizens
Mr. Alward: Today, I would like to begin with a question from the Ask the Premier program. It is
certainly a relevant question today, especially given the fiscal update and the comments made by
the Minister of Finance regarding taxation.
A senior living on a fixed income raised the prospect of a cut in her income if the provincial income
tax is lowered and the HST is raised to cover the tax losses. What is going to happen to the people
who do not pay income tax? In effect, the government is cutting their income. They are the only
group in the province treated this way. My question to the Premier is this: Why does the government
want to cut the income of senior citizens?
Hon. S. Graham: Our track record on helping to improve the lives of seniors is very important.
When we came to office, we changed the former Conservative policy whereby seniors entering into
nursing homes had to give up their life assets. We have changed that policy today. Seniors entering
into nursing homes now have the security and dignity that they deserve. As well, we have increased
the hours of care for seniors in nursing homes. The former Conservative government, of which the
Leader of the Opposition was a member at the Cabinet table, said that it could not do that. We
moved forward. Even more important, we increased the low-income seniors supplement in this
province. We took it from $100 to $200, to help low-income seniors in the province. That was
something which the former Conservative government, when the member opposite was at the
Cabinet table, said that it could not do.
026 11:50
We have been very clear. Our tax reforms are going to put more money back into the pockets of
New Brunswickers. Our tax reforms are going to create an environment where young New
Brunswickers can return home. The grandchildren of the seniors we are talking about today will be
able to remain in or return to this province.
As we have stated all along, in the final week of this legislative session, we will announce our tax
reforms in broad strokes, clearly outlining our stimulus package versus the nonaction plan of the
opposition.
Budget
M. Alward : Encore une fois, le premier ministre ne donne pas de l’information correcte à la
Chambre. La semaine dernière, nous avons demandé au gouvernement de nous donner l’ampleur
du déficit de la province. Le premier ministre a refusé de donner la réponse à la Chambre. Lundi,
le ministre des Finances a révélé devant des gens d’affaires que la province est dans une situation
déficitaire cette année et que, à moins d’un miracle, elle le sera aussi l’année prochaine. Le premier
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ministre peut-il nous dire pourquoi le gouvernement a failli à la tâche lorsque c’était le moment
d’agir et que, maintenant, il se retrouve dans une situation déficitaire?
L’hon. V. Boudreau : Si le chef de l’opposition avait écouté l’allocution que je viens de faire à la
Chambre, il aurait cette réponse. Au Nouveau-Brunswick, au Canada et partout dans le monde, nous
vivons une crise financière comme nous n’en avons jamais vu. Cette crise financière a eu des effets
au Nouveau-Brunswick, comme elle a des effets dans toutes les autres compétences au monde.
Toutefois, ce que nous avons de ce côté-ci et que l’opposition n’a pas de ce côté-là, c’est un plan
pour traiter de cette crise financière. Nous avons dit que nous ferons notre part en tant que
gouvernement pour nous assurer de restreindre les dépenses et d’annuler les dépenses inutiles au
gouvernement. Nous avons préparé une série de mesures. Le plus important budget des dépenses
en capital de l’histoire de la province sera dévoilé la semaine prochaine pour la prochaine année
financière, et nous dévoilerons les grandes lignes pour l’année suivante. Nous avons un plan, et
l’opposition n’en a pas.
Mr. Alward: What we have here today is a government that has a management problem. We have
a government that certainly forgot to check its bank account before it spent the money. We have a
government that has a spending problem. In fact, today, the only real and clear solution that the
minister brought forward was that the government would hold MLA salaries for the future year,
which was a recommendation from this side. That is the only clear recommendation that the
government has made on how it is going to maintain its spending.
If not for the additional $105 million in equalization payments that New Brunswick will receive
from the federal government—which, by the way, the government forgot to mention in its
update—it would be deeper in debt. Why was this government asleep at the switch? This deficit did
not happen overnight. To the Premier, how is it possible that the government did not see this
coming?
Hon. V. Boudreau: I will tell the Leader of the Opposition what we have today. We have a
government that has a plan, and we have an opposition that does not have a plan. We have an
opposition that, when in government, had seven years to do all the wonderful things that its members
have kept talking about since being on the other side of the floor. They have not done those things.
In the reply from the Finance Critic this morning, we heard that the opposition is going to cut every
tax known to government and that it is going to increase every benefit known to government. It is
going to balance the books, and there will be a turkey in every pot. What the opposition members
have not said is how they are going to show signs of restraint and how they are going to provide
good government.
027 11:55
To be able to reduce the revenues as they are saying they would do, they have to cut on the
expenditure side. Which schools will they close? Which hospitals will they close? Which roads will
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they not build? With which projects will they not go forward? Will they not help our seniors? Will
they not help our youth? Will they not help the low income people in our province?
Mr. Alward: Let’s go back a few years. There was government that reduced taxes for people, for
small business, for medium-sized business, and for large business. What has taken place over the
last two years? We have had a government that has raised taxes for people, for small business, for
medium-sized business, and for large business. We had a government a few years ago that reduced
the net debt. We had a government a few years ago that left with a surplus. What do we have today?
We have a government that has increased the net debt of this province. We have a government that
is also in deficit. There is a very clear difference between the two parties.
Let’s go back to it again. This government clearly has a management problem. It has a spending
problem, not a revenue problem. Revenues are up 13.5% from March 2006 to the end of this fiscal
year. In fact, this fiscal year, the revenues are up. It is not a revenue problem; it is a spending
problem. Spending was up $300 million last year, and it is up again this year. We have a government
that has forgotten to check the bankbook. Why did this government fail, until today, to react?
Hon. S. Graham: On September 15 of this year, global financial institutions changed dramatically
with the collapse of Lehman Brothers, which had a cascading effect on financial institutions
throughout the world. Today, many provinces are announcing that they are moving into deficit
position. New Brunswick is not immune to this, the same as all other jurisdictions. Rather than
talking about avoiding a deficit at all costs, rather than saying that there is no deficit, as some
governments are doing today, what we are doing differently here today is that we are meeting these
challenges head-on with a plan that will provide not only a fiscal stimulus package to put more
money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers, but a $1.2-billion infrastructure investment to
put New Brunswickers to work today. While the criticism rings hollow on that side of the Chamber,
we have announced a direction for dealing with the downturn in the global economy, so New
Brunswick will be much better prepared than any other jurisdiction when we move out of the
potential recession.
Mr. Alward: Quite clearly, the Premier is in denial today. If you look at what the OECD has said,
clearly, we are in a recession. As I said in my reply to the speech from the throne, New
Brunswickers expect more from their political leaders. Over the past week, we have offered a
number of positive ideas to help New Brunswickers and the government to get through these tough
economic times. There are a number of ways that we can work together, and we are prepared to do
so to find solutions that will allow this government to stimulate the economy and, at the same time,
manage its budget. Will the Premier agree to sit down with members of the official opposition to
collaborate on an immediate course correction for this year’s budget and continue the collaboration
to jointly develop next year’s fiscal budget?
Hon. S. Graham: Possibly the Leader of the Opposition was not listening to the statement provided
by the Minister of Finance. We have revised our economic growth numbers for this year from 1.8%
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to 1%. That is not a recession. He has clearly stated that there is potential for contraction in the next
fiscal period, as all global economies are dealing with this challenge today. We are seeing 300 000
foreclosures a month in the United States, which is the equivalent to the size of the state of New
Hampshire in the number of homes that are being foreclosed upon. That is having a huge impact on
our forest industries in Canada.
Today, we have announced a record investment in infrastructure to put New Brunswickers to work,
and it will be released in more detail next week. It is a $1.2-billion investment.
028 12:00
We have also announced a major tax reform stimulus package that is going to put more money back
into the pockets of New Brunswickers, and that will be made evident, in broad strokes, prior to the
recess of this House. What defines the members on that side of the House and on this side is that,
while they are asking for a meeting on that side, we are taking action on this side.
M. Volpé : Dans le document du ministre ce matin, on peut lire : « il est maintenant prévu que les
dépenses seront de 302 millions de dollars supérieures aux sommes budgétées. » Monsieur le
ministre des Finances, pouvez-vous nous dire de combien vous avez dépassé le budget de l’an
dernier?
L’hon. V. Boudreau : Comme d’habitude, l’ancien chef de l’opposition aime passer tout son temps
dans le passé et à se concentrer sur ce qui est arrivé dans le passé. Nous, de ce côté-ci de la
Chambre, sommes concentrés sur ce qui se passe dans l’avenir.
Nous sommes en train de vivre une situation très critique au Canada et partout dans le monde. Ce
matin, nous avons déposé la deuxième partie, si vous voulez, de notre plan sur comment nous allons
aborder cette situation. La semaine prochaine, nous déposerons un budget de capital de grandeur
historique pour la province du Nouveau-Brunswick et, au cours de la quatrième semaine de session,
nous pourrons répondre aux questions sur la réforme du régime fiscal. Alors, nous avons un plan qui
vise l’avenir et non un plan qui vise le passé.
M. Volpé : Parfois, pour pouvoir planifier l’avenir, il faut regarder le passé. L’année dernière, le
ministre des Finances qui est ici a reçu des recettes supplémentaires de tout près de 300 millions et
il les a entièrement dépensées. Cette année, il essaie de justifier ses dépenses en disant : Il y a une
crise économique. Quelle était la raison l’année dernière pour avoir dépassé son budget de près de
300 millions? Qu’est-ce qu’il y a de différent? Le ministre va dépenser 300 millions de plus que
prévu, soit le même montant que l’année dernière. Alors, j’espère que les gens du Nouveau-
Brunswick comprendront que ce n’est pas un problème de recettes mais un problème de dépenses.
C’est l’incapacité du ministre des Finances et du premier ministre de gérer les recettes. Monsieur
le ministre des Finances, vous avez dit dans votre analyse que les recettes provenant du secteur des
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minéraux au Nouveau-Brunswick étaient à la baisse. Quand avez-vous été mis au courant de cette
situation?
L’hon. V. Boudreau : Le député d’en face n’était peut-être pas ici quand j’ai déposé à la Chambre
les résultats de la dernière année financière, soit l’année 2007-2008, mais on a terminé l’année avec
un excédent. Alors, lorsqu’il dit qu’on a fait toutes sortes de choses, je peux lui dire qu’on a terminé
l’année avec un excédent. C’est de cette année que nous parlons présentement, à cause de la crise
que nous vivons. Nous prévoyons une augmentation considérable de la taxe sur les minéraux dans
ce budget-ci en raison de la crise économique. Nous verrons diminuer les recettes de cette catégorie
d’environ 70 millions de dollars. Évidemment, nous travaillons avec de très gros chiffres.
Si nous regardons les régimes de pension, nous devons y faire un ajustement de 133 millions. Nous
devons travailler avec des chiffres de ce genre durant cette année financière.
M. Volpé : Le ministre dit qu’il y a eu un excédent l’année dernière, et je suis d’accord avec lui. J’ai
dit que beaucoup d’argent supplémentaire est entré. Le ministre l’a tout dépensé, et il y a eu un petit
excédent à la fin de l’année. L’année dernière, il a justifié ses dépenses. Cette année, il dit que c’est
dû à la crise économique.
Le ministre nous parle de la taxe sur les minéraux. En 2006, les recettes provenant de la taxe sur les
minéraux étaient d’environ 8 millions. Cette année, elles seront probablement de 50 millions. Ce
n’est pas une perte, c’est beaucoup plus qu’en 2006.
Je vais vous donner des chiffres. Au cours des trois premières années du gouvernement actuel, les
recettes ont augmenté de 13,5 % si je me fie aux chiffres pour la fin mars 2009. Au cours des trois
premières années du gouvernement de Bernard Lord, les recettes avaient augmenté de 12,8 %
comparativement à 13,5 %.
029 12:05
On avait équilibré les budgets, avec un excédent d’au-delà de 240 millions. Ce matin, le ministre
prévoit que, malgré une augmentation de 13,5 % des recettes sur trois ans, il y aura un déficit d’au-
delà de 285 millions. Je le répète : c’est un problème de dépenses et non pas un problème de
recettes. Le ministre peut-il admettre que son ministère l’avait averti il y a deux ans de cela qu’un
ralentissement économique s’en venait?
L’hon. V. Boudreau : Je vais aussi me répéter. L’ancien chef de l’opposition est pris dans le passé.
Nous regardons vers l’avenir. Nous avons annoncé un plan aujourd’hui, contrairement à l’opposition
qui n’a pas de plan. C’est un plan qui prévoit un investissement d’au-delà de 1,2 milliard de dollars
au cours des deux prochaines années financières pour s’assurer que les Néo-Brunswickois et Néo-
Brunswickoises ont un emploi, que nos collectivités continuent à se développer et que la province
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soit en très bonne position lorsque la crise économique sera terminée pour pouvoir profiter
pleinement des avantages qui s’offriront à elle.
Nous avons un plan tourné vers l’avenir. La semaine prochaine, nous aurons beaucoup plus de
détails en ce qui a trait à cette enveloppe budgétaire. Cependant, je peux vous dire qu’un montant
de plus de 1,2 milliard aidera certainement les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick à continuer à travailler
dans notre province.
Mr. Fitch: The future is the thing we are concerned about when we see this document that was
tabled this morning. Revenues remain on track with budget, but spending is up by $302 million. If
people in New Brunswick ran their households like this, we would all be bankrupt in a very short
period of time.
There are 10 pages in English and 12 pages in French. We know that there is a capital budget. We
know that there is a continued review of programs. We know about fuel costs. We know about
electric power. There is nothing really new here except for one item that was brought forward by
the Leader of the Opposition. Today, the Minister of Finance announced that he was following one
of our recommendations. It was recommended that MLA salaries be frozen this year. Certainly, we
want to know: Does that include deputy ministers, NB Power executives, executive assistants, and
ministers? Can the minister tell us how much money it is going to save in the province’s $7-billion
budget by freezing those salaries?
Hon. V. Boudreau: The member for Riverview may not have been listening to my statement when
I gave it earlier. When I talked about some of the increased expenses that we have to face as a
government, these are expenses that are beyond our control. I don’t think anybody on this side of
the House or on that side of the House would have known what was going to happen to our pension
funds more than two and a half months ago. That had an impact of $133 million on our bottom line.
I do not think anybody on that side of the House would have been able to predict that we would have
three separate floods this spring and that we were going to have to invest in those, as well.
What is more important, as I have said before, is that we have a plan on this side of the House. We
have a balanced approach to make sure that we look at restraint and belt-tightening as a government.
At the same time, we need to provide an economic stimulus for the province, and we need to provide
tax relief. Both of those will be coming to us in greater detail.
Mr. Fitch: The minister did not answer the question as to whether the salary freeze included
ministers, executive assistants, and deputy ministers. Maybe the press will have a better chance of
getting an answer than I have. Certainly, when we look to the future, we have heard what this
government has said about self-sufficiency in the future. I was a financial planner, and when
situations occur, it is certainly not a surprise if pension deficits occur. Over the years, they occurred
even when we were making decisions on the budget, but we still decreased taxes, still paid down
the net debt, and still had a balanced budget.
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Since we have had this dramatic change in the finances of the province. The government says it did
not see it coming.
030 12:10
They talk about their slogan of self-sufficiency by 2026. Has the minister reviewed that plan for self-
sufficiency in 2026? Will he present it here today? Does that plan include revised figures that would
put self-sufficiency two years beyond 2026?
Hon. V. Boudreau: Previously, I had to correct some of the information from the member opposite.
Now, I would like to answer his question on MLAs’ salaries. We were very clear in the presentation
that I made earlier that we, as elected officials, need to lead by example. By “elected officials”, I
mean every one of the 55 of us who are in this room. As of January 1 of next year, our salaries will
be frozen. That includes MLAs, ministers, the Leader of the Opposition, the Premier, and,
unfortunately, it even includes you, Mr. Speaker. However, that is what we call leading by example.
As for all other employees of government, all the nonelected employees, we are conducting a
program review, as we have said. Those details will be coming out as we continue to prepare our
next budget for the spring of 2009.
Mr. Fitch: The minister did not clarify whether the minister’s salary will be frozen.
(Interjection.)
Mr. Fitch: Great. However, the minister is still one question behind, because he did not answer my
question on self-sufficiency for 2026. Will you admit today that self-sufficiency has been put off
by two years and that you will change your marketing slogan of self-sufficiency for 2026 to self-
sufficiency for 2028? Will you change your slogan today?
Hon. S. Graham: The Minister of Finance was very clear in his response. I think the other members
acknowledged that the answer was given. The facts are in Hansard. However, on the self-sufficiency
question, which is very important, we have set a goal as a province—not as a government or as an
opposition, but a goal for all citizens today—to be able to stand on our own two feet and to be a
province that contributes to the growth of the confederation. We set that goal for 2026. As Premier,
I am more confident than ever that, even with the fiscal hardships facing this country today, New
Brunswick is going to be in a much better position, when the recession ends, to achieve self-
sufficiency by the reforms and the action that we are taking on this side of the House today. We are
going to be leading the way, compared to every other jurisdiction in Canada.
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Health Care
Mrs. Blaney: I am pleased to be asking the Minister of Health my first question as the official
Health Critic. It has become well-known that the implementation of a provincewide trauma system
has been delayed. In fact, the only person who will not acknowledge that is the Minister of Health.
The system is so delayed that, for example, no money has been allocated and no new human
resources have been added. In fact, we have not even hired a director of the trauma system. The
department advertised for the position of the director of trauma almost a year ago. It will be a year
in February. There has only been one applicant in 10 months for that position, and that applicant
happens to be Dr. Trenholm, who is one of the top 25 experts in this country. He has been
responsible for setting up the trauma system that we have today. There has been only one applicant
in 10 months. Why has Dr. Trenholm’s application not even been acknowledged or accepted?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: I thank the member opposite for her question. The Dubinsky report came out
in early March 2007. A review of some pieces of it was done. That second report was received in
the early part of July 2007. Within three or four days, both reports were released. About seven weeks
later, the trauma system committee was formed, which was responsible for the construction. Dr.
Furlong was correct that there was a delay of three or four months. That is what he said. Within our
own agenda, which was ahead of the Dubinsky timelines . . . The Dubinsky timelines outlined that
the trauma system should be in place within approximately three years after the committee was put
in place, which would take us into the fall of 2010.
031 12:15
With regard to a coordinator, that is being determined by the committee. I understand that the
remuneration advertised is also being reviewed at the present time.
Mrs. Blaney: I actually anticipated that the minister would defer to the committee that has been
struck. It is my understanding that the committee has not been charged with the responsibility of
hiring a director. In fact, the minister can correct me if I am wrong, but my understanding is that a
head-hunting firm has actually been contracted to fill that position, so it is not actually the
committee’s responsibility. In fact, that committee has not met for almost a year. It met for the first
time, very briefly, two weeks ago. That committee really has not been very active, which may be
why some delay has occurred.
However, the fact remains that I have been told repeatedly that the Minister of Health has taken a
very strong dislike to Dr. Andrew Trenholme. In fact, he has made it very clear to any number of
people, any chance that he gets, that he does not like Dr. Andrew Trenholme. It is not a personality
contest. Dr. Andrew Trenholme is one of 25 experts in the country, if not in North America. He is
one of the leading experts, and he has been recruited by different hospitals. Will the minister. . .
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Hon. Mr. Murphy: To be very clear, the trauma system committee met a few months ago. There
was a slight delay within the agenda of government to move this forward. The trauma system
committee retained a headhunter that provides a list of names, in time. The trauma system
committee will hire a coordinator. I will not be hiring a coordinator, because I am not qualified for
that. That will be at the whole discretion of the trauma system committee.
Mrs. Blaney: The fact remains that there is only one applicant. In 10 months, there has been only
one applicant. The head-hunting firm does not have any other names, to anyone’s knowledge. There
is only one applicant. It seems that the Minister of Health has taken almost a visceral dislike to Dr.
Andrew Trenholme, and he has said so on many occasions. Will the minister put . . .
Mr. Speaker: Excuse me. This is getting too personal. A liking or disliking is not to be discussed
in this House. If you have a question, ask the question.
Mrs. Blaney: My question is: Will the minister put politics and personalities aside and hire Dr.
Trenholme?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: I have not interviewed anyone to be the coordinator of the trauma system. It is
at the sole discretion of the trauma system committee to hire a coordinator in due time, whenever
it determines that to be. There will be funds in the budget to do what is necessary, as outlined by the
trauma system committee, for the next fiscal year. Presuming that things proceed, as would be
indicated in the Dubinsky report, the trauma system will be in full bloom, so to speak, in the fall of
2010.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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Budgetary Deficit
Mr. Alward: If we were to relate New Brunswick’s $285-million deficit to the federal budget, it
would be approximately $10 billion. I wonder if the people of New Brunswick would feel it was
worth a debate.
Yesterday, the Minister of Finance tried his hardest to hide the fact that this government has
mismanaged provincial finances right into a $285-million deficit. While he presented a number of
excuses and tried to blame the economic crisis, it was clear that this government was headed for a
deficit as soon as it tabled the budget this past March.
My question to the Premier is this: At what point did he and his government realize that the province
was headed for a deficit?
Hon. S. Graham: Upon closing our first budget, we recorded a $136-million surplus. Last year, our
province recorded an $87-million surplus. With the budget that we brought forward for the current
fiscal period, we forecast a $19-million surplus.
Last spring—it is no secret—there was a major flood event in the province, a catastrophic event for
many homeowners in the province. Our government made a decision. Rather than delaying help for
those homeowners, as the previous government did for over three years, we would move quickly
to put cash into their hands and into their homes, so that they could return to their lifestyles as
quickly as possible.
Coupled with that, on September 15, a catastrophic chain of events occurred globally, with the
collapse of Lehman Brothers. It has had a major impact on financial institutions throughout the
world. When that confidence in the stock market was lost, our pension plans were hit in the same
magnitude as pension plans across the globe. There were two specific event that our government had
to deal with.
Mr. Alward: What the Premier has brought up today is certainly not new. Clearly, if the Premier
were being forthright with the people of New Brunswick, he would say that the federal government
would be paying the vast majority of the costs for victims of the floods.
As much as the Premier tried to dodge the questions yesterday, he cannot hide the fact that his
government has a spending problem. We also know that it is not a revenue problem. In fact, the
government’s revenues have continues to stay on target and have even grown, thanks to an
additional $105 million in federal equalization payments. New Brunswick’s Auditor General has
said that the Minister of Finance should have used his fiscal update to comment on the province’s
balanced budget trajectories. The minister clearly missed the opportunity yesterday. My question
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for the Premier is this: Will the Premier enlighten the people of New Brunswick on the province’s
balanced budget trajectories?
Hon. S. Graham: Today, we are dealing with a global crisis that is having an impact in New
Brunswick and across the country. Our government, today, is bringing forward a bold stimulus
package. Next week, the Minister of Finance will be releasing a $1.2-billion infrastructure
investment for our province. Also, we will be moving forward progressively on bold tax reforms that
will put more money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers.
019 14:15
It is important this afternoon to note that the Leader of the Opposition seems to have amnesia. In
2002-03, his government recorded a deficit of $110 million. In 2003-04, his government incurred
another deficit of $182 million. Deficits do occur. It is how you act toward those deficits . . . That
is why our government, today, is bringing forward a full and progressive plan to make sure that New
Brunswickers are best served in these difficult economic times.
Mr. Alward: Again, let’s give the Premier an opportunity to be forthright with New Brunswickers.
That deficit of $108 million was prefaced by a $112-million cut to federal transfer payments a month
before the budget ended.
Nous savons depuis quelque temps que le gouvernement a des problèmes à contrôler ses dépenses,
mais il devient de plus en plus évident que ce gouvernement a aussi un problème de gestion. Le
gouvernement n’a pas contrôlé son budget et ses dépenses. Le gouvernement a échoué à fournir le
leadership sur la question de l’économie. Ma question est pour le premier ministre. Quand, au cours
des huit derniers mois, le gouvernement a-t-il réalisé qu’il devait réajuster et freiner les dépenses?
Hon. S. Graham: I know that the Leader of the Opposition has a hard time acknowledging that his
government ran two back-to-back deficits of $110 million and $182 million. Maybe that is what he
is calling a technical deficit this afternoon. However, the fact remains that other provinces are
recording hardships today, and they are moving into deficit situations. We are going to work to
avoid a deficit, but we cannot avoid a deficit at all costs. We still need to fund important education
programs. We need to still make sure that our most vulnerable in our province are protected. That
is why our government is moving forward with investments in social spending today. The Leader
of the Opposition is saying that his government would not have hired the 44 new social workers to
protect our most vulnerable in the province. Where his government chose not to act for seven years,
we acted in our first year, and those social workers are in place today, helping the most vulnerable
in our province.
We are going to be making strategic investments, and that will be evident over the next two weeks
of this session. I have to come back to this today. The fearmongering from the Leader of the
Opposition is simply that: fearmongering. Standard & Poor’s released a Ratings Direct, and the
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headline read: “Province of New Brunswick ‘AA-’ Ratings Affirmed on Steady Financial
Performance”. That is the rating that counts.
Mr. Alward: The Premier can grandstand today, but the reality is that those ratings are based on the
history and the work that was done over the last number of years. The government has been
frittering away the position in which it was left when it came into power. Yesterday, the Auditor
General stated that he would not be surprised if the province’s net debt climbed as high as $8 billion
in a very short period of time. Let’s be clear: I am deeply concerned about the lack of fiscal
discipline and focus on the government side of this House. Again, will the Premier inform the
members of the House as to the types of checks and balances the government has put in place to
protect the province from increasing the net debt even more?
Hon. S. Graham: It is important to note this afternoon that New Brunswick is in a much better
position compared with many other jurisdictions. In fact, we had the third lowest net debt per capita
in the country. Alberta has $0, and British Columbia is second. In our last two budgets, we were able
to record surpluses of $136 million and, last year, $87 million. There are current circumstances that
are beyond the control of many governments. Instead of ignoring these issues, our government is
taking a bold and balanced approach. Very clearly, we are investing in people and in infrastructure,
and we are doing tax reform that will put more money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers.
At the same time, it will place New Brunswick in a much better position than any other jurisdiction,
so that when this global recession ends, New Brunswick will be charging full force toward self-
sufficiency.
020 14:20
Mr. Fitch: Certainly, the words that are being spoken here in the House today are quite hollow in
nature. It has become apparent that the financial update that was put forth by the Minister of Finance
yesterday really contained only one new initiative. Capital budgets are not new. Floods are not new.
Pension deficits are not new. Program reviews are not new. The only new initiative that was put
forward yesterday was to freeze the MLAs’ salaries, and that was an idea that came from the
opposition.
Program Review
I would like to ask the Minister of Finance the following. Obviously, he communicated with each
department on the program review. Can he tell us the targeted dollar amount he has given each
department to reduce expenditures?
Hon. V. Boudreau: There is one thing for sure that I know is new to the opposition, and that is to
have a plan to deal with a situation like the one we are going through. We have said all along that
we realize that New Brunswick, just like every other jurisdiction, is going to be facing some difficult
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times in the coming months and years, but it is by having a plan to address that situation that New
Brunswick is going to be able to weather the storm.
We have talked about belt-tightening. We have talked about constraint. We are going to have to do
that. However, we are also going to create an economic stimulus in New Brunswick. When the
private sector is pulling away from some major capital projects, we believe it is government’s role
to step in. That is why we announced that we will be investing over $1.2 billion in capital projects
over the next two years. The critic opposite says that is not new. It is new because it is record
spending. We had record spending this year without even knowing the crisis was coming. Now that
we know we have to deal with this crisis, we have record spending next year and record spending
the year after. Every community across this province is going to feel it.
Mr. Fitch: The minister failed to answer the question. When we did a program review, there was
a specific dollar amount that we made public. Certainly, here today, it appears that the minister does
not have a plan.
Budget
I do agree with Auditor General’s statement that this balance budget legislation is at risk. We are
concerned about that. I do know that the Comptroller gives the Minister of Finance quarterly
updates. I would like the Minister of Finance to commit today to release the quarterly updates from
the Comptroller for the last 12 months so that we can see where these trends have developed. There
is the fact that he said he did not know what was going on. He admitted that here in the House today.
They kept spending. He said that we have a $1.2-billion capital budget. It is over two years. We are
anxious to see those details. Can the minister commit to releasing the quarterly updates that are
given to him and the Premier by the Comptroller of this government?
Hon. V. Boudreau: When we gave our economic update yesterday here in this House, it was based
on projections. We cannot predict what is going to happen in the future. Nobody in this Chamber
can. We have based this on projections to the best of our knowledge today. We have seen what the
markets have been doing over the last two to three months. Nobody can predict what is going to
happen, but we have focussed on putting a plan together that is going to address this situation as best
we can. We are going to invest record amounts of money in projects right around this province. We
are going to provide tax reform and tax relief for New Brunswickers to make sure there is more
money in their pockets at the end of the day to save, to invest, or to spend, whichever way they see
fit. It is the idea here of having a balanced approach. On one side, we have to do some belt-
tightening, and we are going to do that. On the other side, we need to invest in economic stimulus
to make sure that New Brunswickers coming home from other jurisdictions have a job to come home
to.
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Election Platform
Mr. Fitch: Again, the minister failed to agree to release statements from the Comptroller that are
available to him every quarter.
The top item in Premier Shawn Graham’s 2006 election platform was a pledge to bring “an
unprecedented level of financial openness and public accountability”. There is a commitment to
“Adhere to New Brunswick’s Fiscal Responsibility and Balanced Budget Act.”
021 14:25
That was on page 1 of the Charter for Change. Because of the inability for him to manage the
budget and manage the accounts of the province, it appears that he is not concerned about meeting
the Fiscal Responsibility and Balanced Budget Act. Is he admitting here today that the commitments
that were made in the platform are just going to be more in a long list of broken promises, promises
that were made during the election campaign?
Hon. V. Boudreau: As a government, we are committed to balanced budgets; however, when we
looked at what is going on in the world around us, we quickly realized that these are not normal
circumstances we are facing. We are the fourth province to predict a deficit this fiscal year. I am
quite sure, with the numbers I have seen, that the federal government will probably end up in a
deficit position. This is not something that is happening only in New Brunswick. What is happening
in New Brunswick is that we have the leadership of a Premier and a team that has put a plan
together. So far, all we have heard from the opposition is criticism, and the fact that it is going to
hold a meeting or two. We have put a concrete plan together. It started last week with the Premier’s
speech from the throne and, yesterday, we saw the economic update. Next week, we will have the
capital budget; the week after that, taxation reform. We are going to be investing heavily and . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Health Care
Mrs. Blaney: Yesterday, the Minister of Finance indicated that the Department of Health would be
running a $41-million deficit. For clarification, can the minister tell us if that is a $41-million deficit
to date or a projected deficit? If it is a $41-million deficit to date, is it going to round up to $60
million by year end? Will the minister clarify that, please?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: That is as projected for this fiscal year. The last year of the previous
government was 2006-07; in Health, there was a $48-million deficit. The deficit of $40 million is
actually $33 million; $7 million is institutional for outside the province, and we have no control over
that when people have operations in Halifax, Ontario, or wherever the speciality is located. In fact,
with the new authorities being in place for only three months, we have reduced that figure from $48
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million to $33 million, with a view to having no deficits in one to two years, based upon the new
authorities.
Mrs. Blaney: That is a pile of gobbledygook. A $40-million deficit is a $40-million deficit, no
matter which way you cut it, and the Minister of Finance just confirmed that these are projections
and he does not know what the dollar figure will actually be by year-end. Last May, the minister said
that we have to get more bang for the buck. To take the minister at his word, he took us from
volunteer boards to paid boards. He took the administration out of our own regions, and now people
are traveling all over the place, staying in hotels, particularly here in Fredericton, and racking up all
kinds of expenses. We have ORs that are empty because there is no staff for them. The minister
delayed and has now created an extremely dysfunctional trauma system. Most egregious of all, he
has created a linguistic divide in our province. All of this was done to save a buck. What did the
minister do? He created a huge deficit. He did not take it to zero and he did not reduce it
dramatically; he created a huge deficit. Can the minister please explain?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: Where we have taken the province is to better health care. We have 106 net new
physicians in the last two years. We are doubling the number of nurse practitioners, we have
pharmacists prescribing, and we have midwives coming on line. We have not taken the authorities
out of our regions, we have taken them out into New Brunswick so that all New Brunswickers can
contribute to health care. It is about getting the right health care to the right person at the right time,
ensuring that the people in this province are looked after. That is what it is about.
022 14:30
Natural Gas Storage
Mr. Northrup: Just last week, the CEO of the Corridor Resources gas company stated that it is
looking beyond the 2-mile-wide and 30-mile-long radius, which runs from Cassidy Lake to French
Village, to dig salt caverns to store natural gas. In fact, the company is looking at the Petitcodiac
region as another area to store gas.
My question is to the Minister of Natural Resources, who is also the MLA for Petitcodiac. Would
he welcome with open arms the storing of natural gas in salt caverns in Petitcodiac?
Hon. Mr. Stiles: Thank you for the question. This morning, I actually had a good meeting with the
quality of life committee outside the Legislature. We came inside with six or seven spokespeople
of that committee. We sat downstairs for about an hour, and we went over some concerns of that
committee. I listened to those concerns, and I also committed to that committee that we would have
an ongoing dialogue. We will continue to do that, and that commitment is in place.
Mr. Northrup: Some things never change in this House. You ask a question, you get a reply from
the other side that does not answer your question. I will ask it again, and I will ask it very, very
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slowly to the member for Petitcodiac, the Minister of Natural Resources. As the MLA for
Petitcodiac, will you welcome with open arms the storage of natural gas in Petitcodiac?
Hon. Mr. Stiles: Thank you again for the question. I will say this slowly too. We should actually
remember that this is only in the exploratory stage. There is no license for any company to store any
gas underground. During this process, if that ever came to fruition, a complete EIA would be done
at that point. I hope that answers the member’s question.
Mr. Northrup: Obviously, I am disappointed again, and the people who came here today are
definitely disappointed. We ask a question, and we expect an answer. These people do not have their
answer. Maybe I will ask someone else on the other side.
Can anyone on the other side give us the benefits of storing gas in the Cassidy Lake and French
Village areas when 100% of the gas goes to the United States? Why store it? There is no benefit for
these people. Why not store it in Maine, which has the same topography? Store it in Maine, away
from these people.
Hon. Mr. Stiles: We went over some of the concerns of the quality of life committee this morning.
We have an ongoing dialogue. The company is only at the exploratory stage. You are talking about
footprints and technical questions. I cannot answer technical questions when it is only at an
exploratory stage. We are part of the regulatory process, and that will always continue. If we move
to a position where something else develops, then a full-blown EIA, as I mentioned before, will take
place. That is all part of the regulatory process. We need due diligence for anyone that is in New
Brunswick.
Mr. Harrison, after requesting permission to speak from a seat other than his own: Prior to the
Cassidy Lake mine closure, springs and wells were starting to go dry. All wells came back when the
mine was closed. This would indicate a water problem that needs to be addressed. The following
question is from our Ask the Premier initiative. Concerned citizens living within the affected area
would like to know what guarantee your government will give them with regard to the protection
of their water supply, the environment, and the overall safety of communities in the area in which
Corridor Resources Inc. proposes to store natural gas and other petroleum products in salt caverns.
023 14:35
Mr. Speaker: I have to remind the member: The question has to come from you. You will have to
rephrase it. You said: I am reading a question. What is your question?
Mr. Harrison: It is my question. I am merely asking the question on behalf of concerned citizens.
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Hon. Mr. Haché: Thank you very much for the question. From the outset, I would like to say that
the member across has said that the problem has existed for seven years. Obviously, he cannot blame
it on our government this time, can he?
How can we give guarantees that the water will always be there? We cannot give guarantees that
the water will always be there. What we can guarantee is that our government and the Department
of Environment will always be there to protect the water.
Mr. Harrison: You may not be able to guarantee that the water will always be there, but you do not
have to help it disappear.
My second question is presumably for the Minister of Natural Resources again. What funds are
available to the residents of these areas to do an environmental impact assessment? Will DNR fund
an independent EIA? Will each homeowner in the 90 000 acres be given the opportunity to have a
water analysis done before the project starts, including any seismic testing?
Hon. Mr. Haché: First of all, I would like to say that I certainly understand the worries of the
people who are here today. I really do. Also, it has to be noted that the project, right now, has not
been registered for an EIA. It would be totally irresponsible for any government, in any jurisdiction,
to say yes or no to a project at the outset. That is not the way it works. That is why there is an
environmental impact assessment. What is an environmental impact assessment? It is precisely what
I am saying—a study of the impact on the environment from such a project. Up to now, there is no
project that has been registered.
Mr. Harrison: The minister has led me into my final question. The former Minister of Natural
Resources, at a press conference regarding uranium exploration activity, was responding to a
question from a reporter. The question was about whether uranium companies would be able to enter
and work on private property if the property owner refused permission. The minister’s answer to the
reporter was: If the landowner says no, it’s a no. Can landowners say no to people coming onto their
land to explore for areas to store natural gas under their properties? If not, will the minister tell New
Brunswickers what their next step is?
Hon. Mr. Stiles: I am not sure if that question had to do with uranium exploration or natural gas
exploration. If you are talking about uranium exploration, some changes were actually made last
June by our government. We listened to the people of New Brunswick and made some very
constructive changes. No longer would any exploration be allowed within any incorporated villages
and towns, or within 300 m of a residence. There would also be designated watersheds and
wellfields where there would be no exploration.
Also, to answer the question of whether a person can refuse to let a mining company onto his or her
property, a person can refuse any intrusive mining.
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Water Supply
Mr. Betts: This government is not protecting private property in this province. It introduced Bill 14,
which states that companies can destroy riverfronts and lakefronts, pollute rivers, and destroy lakes.
Also, you cannot sue them, and they are going to make it retroactive. When it came to uranium,
there were 19 000 different claims and 1 inspector. My question is this: Why do you not have
legislation in place requiring companies to conduct pretests and posttests on water and to make sure
that these companies replace any affected water supplies?
024 14:40
Hon. Mr. Haché: Thank you very much for the question. Obviously, the member across the floor
does not understand the legislature at all. This government would certainly not pass legislation that
commands companies to go there and destroy the environment. That is not what this legislature is
all about, and the member knows much better than that.
Again, what the Department of Environment does is protect the environment. We have regulations
and Acts in place that allow us to do that.
When the member across the floor says that there is only one person for enforcement, we also count
on the goodwill of the people. If there is any infraction, the Department of Environment is more than
happy to take that complaint, and that is the system. If you see someone doing something that is
illegal, would you not take the phone and call 1-800-222-TIPS? Of course, there are a lot of good
citizens in the province who have an interest in protecting the environment, and I commend them.
Mr. Betts: He asked for it, and now he is going to get it.
Bill 14 says:
designating lands and buildings as public works
..............................................................................
(d) exempting the lands and buildings referred to in paragraphs . . . from the application of the
Mechanics’ Lien Act.
Subsection 12(2) says it can be retroactive.
Also, I read from the Clean Water Act that this government . . . If it breaks the law and pollutes a
lake . . . Clearly, the water test from Health Canada shows that if they open those gates, they will
pollute the lake.
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My question was: Why is there not legislation requiring companies, when they are doing work on
private property, to be responsible with a pretest, a posttest, and a guarantee of the restoration and
reconstruction of the water supply if they damage it? We do not have that.
Hon. Mr. Haché: Again, thank you for the question. The member across the floor is talking about
restoring the Petitcodiac River. There has been a full EIA on the restoration of the Petitcodiac River.
The member may not accept the facts, but the facts are that a full and comprehensive EIA shows that
the Petitcodiac River and the area will be better served with the restoration of the Petitcodiac River.
We are the government that has committed to doing that because it is right thing to do. We will do
that because we have the will to govern.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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============================================================================================================
NB Power
Mr. Alward: As you can imagine, our Ask the Premier initiative was overwhelmed with hits from New Brunswickers this weekend after they learned that top NB Power executives were given retroactive pay increases and bonuses stretching back as far as 2006. With that said, my first question is from our Ask the Premier initiative. How can Francis McGuire, Chairman of NB Power, grant David Hay retroactive bonuses when they were previously canceled under Bernard Lord? How can such lucrative benefits be given when we are in a recession, when the government has mismanaged the budget by spending more than $300 million over its revenues? Is giving bonuses to top executives the only target of the self-sufficiency report that is being met?
Hon. V. Boudreau: To answer the Leader of the Opposition, everybody knows that we have been going through some pretty significant economic and financial uncertainty in the world and, obviously, in New Brunswick. All along, we have shown New Brunswickers that, contrary to what the opposition may say, we have a plan to deal with this. We laid out part of it in our throne speech and part of it in our fiscal update. We will be giving a capital budget later on today. Next week, we will be giving broad strokes on tax reform. All along, our government has been working at restraint within government.
012 13:40
Last week, I announced a salary freeze for MLAs and ministers for the coming year. Today, I am pleased to announce in the Legislature, for everyone to hear, that we will cancel the current year’s pay at risk or bonus structure that is in place for all senior civil servants and deputy ministers within Parts I and III of the civil service. Part II does not have any such program in place. As for Part IV, Crown corporations such as NB Power, the New Brunswick Investment Management Corporation, NB Liquor, the New Brunswick Securities Commission, and WorkSafe NB, later today, I will send out a letter to each of the board chairs, asking them to respect government’s decision on canceling these executive bonuses. We expect these Crown corporations to follow government’s wishes.
Mr. Alward: I am certainly pleased to see that the Minister of Finance stood up today. The Premier could have stood up today to show leadership, but he refused to. The minister is clearly in damage control today, but that is not the issue in the House, with what we heard over the weekend from NB Power. Over the weekend, we learned that the government’s spending spree has continued at NB Power. It appears as though six-figure bonuses and huge pay hikes were retroactively given to top NB Power executives. At a time when government is telling us that it needs to tighten its belt, it has been quietly padding the wallets of NB Power executives. Will the Premier inform the House today as to when he was informed that NB Power executives were given retroactive pay and bonuses?
Hon. V. Boudreau: For the benefit of the Leader of the Opposition, I am going to say this again. Over the last three months, things have changed dramatically in the world, in North America, in Canada, and in New Brunswick. We feel that it is now important to look at how we, as a government, can restrain costs, but we also have to look at how we can lead by example. The times have changed from a year ago, or from two years ago, to today. In today’s environment, we have been very clear that, as elected officials in this House, we need to lead by example. We did that, last week, by freezing our salaries.
Now, we believe that it is incumbent upon our senior civil servants, our deputy ministers, and our senior staff within government, but also within Crown corporations, to also lead by example, to also show belt tightening, and to also show restraint. As I said, later today, I will send letters to each of these board chairpersons, asking them to respect the decision of this government, which is to cancel or freeze these bonus programs. We will make sure that we continue to lead by example as a government, through our senior executives within government, in all branches, in Parts I, III, and IV, of the civil service.
Mr. Alward: Today, this government is following the leadership of the opposition. The minister is trying to muddy the waters. What we are talking about today is insidious. The Chairman of NB Power went back as far as 2006 and 2007 and retroactively increased not only top executives’ bonuses, but also pay increases. There was as much as $500 000 to the CEO of NB Power. My question is for the Premier, so allow the Premier to stand up. Does the Premier support retroactive pay increases and bonuses that the people of New Brunswick were not told about?
013 13:45
Hon. S. Graham: I want to be clear this afternoon. Pay at risk was part of a new accountability framework that I put forward in meeting with deputy ministers. Annual performance agreements are being established, and this is the first time that this has ever occurred in the public service. As well, as the member opposite knows, there are independent boards that are at arm’s length from government. These independent boards for the Crown corporations are responsible for the accountability framework for the respective boards.
Pertaining to the deputies, our deputy ministers are second to none in this country. They have been able to bring forward innovative programs and provide service delivery models to protect and serve the people of New Brunswick. We put in place what we felt was an important initiative to retain and recruit under the new accountability framework. That having been said, on September 15, the fiscal climate of this province changed dramatically. The collapse of Lehman Brothers had a ripple effect throughout the financial institutions and within economies around the world.
That is why we brought forward a plan today to deal with the economic downturn. We are one of the few provinces that are dealing with this issue head-on. We have also shown belt-tightening with respect to the Members of the Legislative Assembly. Today, the minister has taken that one step further.
I want to be clear. We are also going one step further. I am going to be writing to the Premiers . . .
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Premier, time.
M. Alward : La population du Nouveau-Brunswick a compris que le gouvernement a rétabli le programme de primes pour les hauts dirigeants d’Énergie NB, un programme qu’avait éliminé l’ancien gouvernement. Quand le premier ministre a-t-il donné l’autorisation à Francis McGuire d’offrir des primes de rendement rétroactives aux dirigeants d’Énergie NB?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, the information that the Leader of the Opposition is requesting will be provided by the Chairman of NB Power, and we will report back to this Chamber.
I want to put this into context in terms of why it was important. We are looking at retaining and recruiting very important people to work in New Brunswick. Today, I think it goes without saying that our senior executives, our deputy ministers, and our Crown corporations do provide a valuable service to New Brunswickers. As we have always stated, when there are challenges, we have to change how we deal with those challenges. Certainly, the economic crisis that started to unfold in September presented very important choices that had to be made. Extensive belt-tightening is coming up in the budget that we will table in the spring. We are going to be finding efficiencies throughout the system, and the senior executives, deputy ministers, and Crown corporations all have a vital role to play. The reason this initiative was initially established is that it was part of a new accountability framework. As Premier, I felt it was important to lead on this. I think the Minister of Finance has made a very important announcement today.
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Mr. Alward: The Premier can spin, spin, and spin all he wants and try to divert from the reality of what took place in New Brunswick. What took place in New Brunswick was this: huge pay increases and huge bonus increases for NB Power executives that were hidden from the people of New Brunswick and from the House. Will the Premier tell the members of this House whether or not he supports handing out retroactive pay and bonus increases to senior NB Power executives?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, the independent board of NB Power undertakes a comprehensive review, and those are the decisions of the board. The member knows that. What we control directly on this side is remuneration pertaining to our deputy ministers and our senior executives. I have to say that I am very proud of the role that our deputy ministers are taking in New Brunswick. These are challenging times.
014 13:50
I want to be very clear. The Minister of Finance will be writing to each of the Crown corporations, asking them to follow the lead of government’s. We will be looking to receive responses from the independent boards. As I was saying before I was cut off previously, the Atlantic Lottery Corporation is a shared board among the respective provinces. I will therefore be writing to my colleagues, asking that a freeze be put in place for this fiscal period for the Atlantic Lottery Corporation, as well.
Again, we are leading on this issue. There will be extensive belt tightening this spring. Every single day, we have members of the opposition standing up, saying that they would like to have us invest here and invest there . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Alward: What we have here today is a government in full damage control, with a Premier in full damage control. Francis McGuire independent? My foot. Will the Premier stand up today and recognize that retroactive pay increases dating back to March 2006, as well as retroactive bonuses going back to 2007, when the minister himself said that there were no retroactive bonuses, are completely unacceptable? Will the Premier revoke any retroactive pay increases and bonuses?
Hon. S. Graham: Actually, what we have today is a record capital budget investment in the province. The Leader of the Opposition sat silent for four years on postsecondary education. Just last week, the members opposite were very enthused to see key investments in the Edmundston area and the Saint John area. Today, we are going to be announcing investments in Bathurst and in the Moncton region.
What I can say is that our government is leading by example. Today, we need to maintain a competitive remuneration program to retain and recruit individuals. We announced—and it was publicly disclosed this past summer—how we were moving forward with the new pay at risk component of the new accountability framework that I brought forward. If the economy of New Brunswick had not changed dramatically, this initiative would have continued. However, looking at the new fiscal realities facing us today. we are all leading by example. I am happy to report that, as I have stated, MLA salaries in this Chamber have been frozen. This is coupled with the announcement that was made by the Minister of Finance today.
We need to go much further.
M. P. Robichaud : Dans ma courte carrière politique, j’ai rarement vu un gouvernement en mode de réparation comme on le voit cet après-midi. Cette situation n’était pas un problème vendredi dernier. Tout à coup, aujourd’hui, elle devient la priorité numéro un du gouvernement. Pourquoi? Parce que des articles ont été publiés dans les journaux et que les médias en ont parlé. Le gouvernement n’aurait jamais bougé si les médias n’avaient pas eu cette information et si l’opposition n’avait pas fait son travail et demandé au gouvernement d’éliminer les primes et les augmentations de salaires à tous les sous-ministres et hauts dirigeants de l’appareil gouvernemental. C’est la raison pour laquelle le gouvernement bouge aujourd’hui.
Ma question est pour le ministre de l’Énergie, et j’espère qu’il aura le courage d’y répondre. Quand avez-vous été mis au courant que les hauts dirigeants d’Énergie NB recevraient leur prime, leur augmentation de salaire, rétroactive à 2006 par-dessus le marché? Quand le ministre de l’Énergie en a-t-il été mis au courant?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I thank the member opposite for the question. He suggests that we are in repair mode, and I would suggest that that is perhaps partly true. We are trying to repair the governance situation at NB Power, which was left by the previous government. Certainly, there are some governance issues that have to be dealt with. We are well on our way with that plan, and we hope that very soon, in the new year, we can repair that governance.
M. P. Robichaud : En 2006, notre gouvernement avait éliminé les primes aux hauts dirigeants d’Énergie NB. Non seulement ce gouvernement-ci les a-t-il remises, il a eu le culot de les mettre rétroactives jusqu’en mars 2006, l’année et le mois qu’on les avait abolies. Cela n’a aucun sens.
015 13:55
Lorsque le premier ministre se vante qu’il a éliminé l’augmentation de salaire des 55 parlementaires, eh bien, c’était notre suggestion. Savez-vous une chose? L’augmentation de salaire des 55 parlementaires représente 150 000 $ en tout, alors que l’augmentation du salaire et des bonis au président-directeur général d’Énergie à lui seul, représente un demi-million de dollars que le gouvernement libéral s’apprêtait à lui accorder.
Ma question au ministre de l’Énergie est la suivante : Quand avez-vous été mis au courant de l’augmentation du salaire et des bonis du président-directeur général d’Énergie NB, et quand les avez-vous autorisés?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I thank the member from Lamèque for the question. I will read from a transcript of the Standing Committee on Estimates, June 15, 2005:
From a standpoint of where our agency is, NB Power is a Crown corporation, so it is at arm’s length from us.
It is true that the opposition tends to ask us some detailed questions concerning the operation of NB Power, but we are not involved in the day-to-day operation of NB Power. I have tried to explain numerous times in the House the governance and the relationship between the Department of Energy and the Crown corporation.
That would be coming from the member for Riverview, as the Minister of Energy. Perhaps, to the member for Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou, you could speak to the member for Riverview. He had tried to explain many times the operation and the governance of NB Power. Perhaps he could try one more time with the member.
M. P. Robichaud : Le ministre de l’Énergie peut faire la lecture de documents qu’il voudra, car la réalité est la suivante : en 2006, le gouvernement de Bernard Lord, dont une bonne partie de nous faisions partie, a éliminé les bonis aux dirigeants d’Énergie NB, alors que, en 2008, le gouvernement actuel les a réintégrés. Non seulement il les a réintégrés, mais il a fait en sorte qu’ils soient rétroactifs à partir de mars 2006, soit le mois et l’année où on les avait éliminés.
Donc, le ministre peut conter l’histoire qu’il voudra, le gouvernement était totalement au courant de tout cela. Comment se fait-il que, la semaine dernière, lorsque les journalistes ont posé des questions au ministre, ce n’était pas un problème, alors que, tout d’un coup, cette fin de semaine, c’est devenu un problème. C’est devenu un problème parce que les médias en ont parlé et parce que l’opposition a fait son travail. La question au ministre qui se vante d’être un ministre très près d’Énergie NB et de parler presque sur une base quotidienne aux dirigeants d’Énergie NB est celle-ci : peut-il confirmer à la Chambre qu’il était totalement au courant de l’augmentation de salaire et des bonis et qu’il les a laissé se faire, même si le gouvernement et le ministre savent tout ce qui se passe à Énergie NB?
Hon. S. Graham: The member from Shippagan is correct. The bonus program was canceled by the former government after the Orimulsion fuel fiasco, another file that our government had to clean up.
Mr. Fitch: I am amazed by what the government is trying to do today. Certainly, from a standpoint of saying one thing and doing another, we have a prime example here today. I appreciate the fact that the Minister of Energy brought up some of the statements that were made because he was the one who said he was going to fix everything. When we are talking about things like Orimulsion, when they were in opposition, they put up their billboards, 4 ft by 8 ft, all over the province, but then when we . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Fitch: They were 4 ft by 6 ft or 4 ft by 8 ft. I thought you were not involved in the day-to-day operations of NB Power.
I want to ask the Minister of Energy a question. Since he has said in this House many times that he is on the phone on a daily basis to David Hay, I wonder if the minister could tell us when he was told specifically that the bonuses were going to be retroactive and would be received by Mr. Hay and other executives of NB Power.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I thank the member for Riverview for his question. I have another comment, actually, from June 15, 2005.
board of directors . . . the senior management of NB Power . . . are charged with the day-to-day operations of the utility
If the member for Riverview thought back on June 15, 2005, it was the right thing to have NB Power run the day-to-day operations, it certainly should be okay with him today for NB Power to run the day-to-day operations.
016 14:00
However, with respect to governance, I want to be clear. We are going to fix that issue. In all fairness, politics aside, I think everybody in the House realizes that the structure and organization of NB Power is in the worst of all worlds right now. I think the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs would agree with that. Certainly, from a provincewide standpoint, people would understand that. We are going to fix that. We are working on that right now. We have had independent consultants consulting around the province. As a matter of fact, I think they consulted with the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs.
Mr. Fitch: Will the Minister of Energy tell us today if the giving of bonuses once a year is a day-to-day operation for the NB Power utility? Is a one-day event a day-to-day operation? Does the Minister of Energy get the minutes from the board of directors? If he gets those minutes, does he read them?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I think the hiring of personnel is a one-day event. I think lots of activities that are done in the day-to-day operation of NB Power are a one-day event. Remuneration for employees of NB Power is a day-to-day operational business—unless, of course, the member for Riverview does not know how to run a day-to-day business. The fact of the matter is that the remuneration package is the responsibility of the board and senior management of NB Power. The member for Riverview clearly said that he did not run the day-to-day operations of NB Power, and neither will we. However, I want to emphasize that we are going to put our plan in place. We are going to correct the situation that NB Power is in right now, because I even believe that NB Power understands that it is in the worst of all worlds right now.
Mr. Fitch: The Minister of Energy continues to dig deeper and deeper into a hole. He says that it is a day-to-day operation and he does not run the day-to-day operation, but he is going to cancel the bonuses. Clearly, the minister does not understand what he is doing.
What we see today is a government that has said that the economic times are tough, so it is not going to pay municipalities out of the Environmental Trust Fund. The economic times are tough, so the government is going to lay off home economics workers. The economic times are tough, so the government is not going to pay a differential on the nurses’ shifts in New Brunswick. The economic times are tough, so the government is going to freeze the MLAs’ salaries. The economic times are tough, so the municipalities have to reduce the amount of money that they are spending. The economic times are tough, and the members opposite say it started on September 15. It has been going on for years. If the economic times are tough, why does the Minister of Energy not have the guts to go to the boards and tell them—do not ask them, tell them—to cut the bonuses now?
Hon. Mr. Keir: For the member for Riverview, I want to correct the record. I thought I mentioned it twice earlier, but, obviously, the member for Riverview was not listening, as usual. We stated that we, the government, are canceling the bonus program for Parts I and III. Part IV covers Crown corporations such as NB Power, and it is not we who cancel the bonuses. I will be sending a letter to the board Chairs this afternoon, asking them to follow the government’s lead. I will strongly encourage them to follow the government’s lead in this tough time of economic crisis that we are living in now in New Brunswick and elsewhere. Together, we can all lead by example to make sure that we do whatever belt-tightening we can within our own realms of responsibility.
Mr. Volpé: As New Brunswickers, we are the shareholders of NB Power. We are the shareholders. We are allowed to ask something of NB Power. However, the voice of NB Power is from one of the ministers—either Energy or Finance. Both of them receive the minutes of the meetings. Both of them could be involved.
017 14:05
I was there, in both portfolios. In one year, we asked that there be no bonuses. The CEO asked for a wage increase, and we said no. We even asked them to reduce their costs by $45 million, which is 4%. They did that but not by themselves—we asked.
My question to the Minister of Energy is this: When were you were made aware that the bonuses would be retroactive, and when did you approve that?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I am glad to see the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs get up and ask a question, actually, on NB Power and this policy. If I recall correctly, the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs was the Minister of Energy when they started the process of breaking up the NB Power companies into silos. It was the Minister of Energy at that time, the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs, who left it in the situation it is in, and it is the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs that we now have to fix that problem.
Mr. Volpé: There is nothing to be fixed, because if they follow the Act, they will fix NB Power. The problem is, it stopped when we left government because they cannot make a decision, except to spend money.
I will go back to the minister. I could not get an answer. When was it that you approved the retroactive increase? Those increases are also pensionable. When was it that you approved those increases? They had to go through Finance and also to the Minister of Energy. When did you approved them?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Again, I will read:
It is true that the opposition tends to ask us some detailed questions concerning the operation of NB Power, but we are not involved in the day-to-day operation of NB Power. I have tried to explain numerous times in the House the governance and the relationship between the Department of Energy and the Crown corporation.
Could I then ask the member for Riverview, instead of explaining it to the member for Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou, to explain it to the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs.
Mr. Volpé: The minister can stand up and say whatever he wants. I have only a very simple question for a minister whose duty is to inform the House. My question is very simple: As minister responsible for the shareholders, who are all New Brunswickers . . . This is our entity, and it belongs to us. You are our voice. When did you approved retroactive increases plus pensionable income to the CEO of NB Power? It had to go through you. You are the voice of ratepayers and taxpayers. We are the shareholders. When did you approve it?
Hon. S. Graham: I want to reiterate that, early last summer, our government announced a new accountability framework for senior executives throughout government as well as Crown corporations. It comes down to an issue of retention and recruitment. We wanted to put in place key performance indicators as well on deliverables so that we could help build the type of province that New Brunswickers want. That situation changed dramatically in September with the financial and fiscal capacity of our province, with the economic crisis that has unfolded. Because of that, at that time, in September, when we were up-front with New Brunswickers on the accountability frameworks, we had made a decision to cancel that program for this year because there is belt-tightening that has to be shared by all individuals.
I want to reiterate the role that senior executives play within the public service today. I know it is easy for the opposition members to stand and try to take some shots at key individuals who work to serve the province of New Brunswick. When I look at our people today in the Department of Social Development, when I look at the people today in the Department of Housing . . .
Mr. Speaker: Premier, time.
The time for question period is now over.
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NB Power
Mr. Alward: Yesterday, the government clearly demonstrated that it and NB Power are lacking in
leadership. We saw last week that the government has a spending problem, and now, that has
extended to NB Power. They are both out of control.
While the Minister of Energy ducked questions in the House, he did share something new with the
media. The minister said that the first time he became aware of the big bonus brouhaha was when
he read about it in the paper over the weekend. It is now clear that the minister does not even take
the time to review the NB Power board minutes. Will the minister please confirm in this House
today that he first found out about the retroactive bonuses and pay hikes by reading the newspaper
over the weekend?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Let us first look at the facts. The facts are that, in April of 2007, I stood in this
House and suggested that NB Power should move forward with its bonus program for that period,
because it was going forward with a large increase in New Brunswickers’ electricity rates. That
bonus program we talked about was for the year 2006-07. A bonus is paid after the fact, based on
a review of performance for that year. The fact of the matter is that NB Power did not go forward
with the bonus program that we asked it not to go forward with.
The year you are talking about now, which hit the paper, was the year 2007-08. There is nothing
retroactive about that. There were no retroactive bonuses paid. Bonuses paid were for 2007-08,
based on performance.
Now, we move forward to this year. Through a letter from the Minister of Finance to all Crown
corporations, and across all government departments, we are asking them not to move forward on
a bonus program for the coming year, because of the economic turmoil in the world.
Mr. Alward: What we have today is a minister who has been oblivious to what has been taking
place in his own department. We have a minister today who is certainly in full damage control. If
the government of today, led by Premier Shawn Graham, did not reverse the decision taken by the
previous government, retroactive bonuses should not have been handed out by NB Power. It was
clear last week that the minister said that there were no bonuses in 2007. He does not know what is
going on in his own department. I am convinced that we may have a rogue Chairman of NB Power
who is clearly acting with blatant disregard for the directives given by NB Power’s sole shareholder.
Does the Premier actually expect the people of New Brunswick to believe that he and his
government were not aware of the retroactive bonuses and pay hikes for NB Power executives? How
naive does he think New Brunswickers really are?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I want to be clear, and I will say it again: Bonuses are not retroactive. Bonuses are
paid at the end of a performance period. The performance period was from April 2007 to March
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2008. In July, the board of NB Power met to review the performance of its senior managers and
decided that it would move forward with the bonus program for that period. That is not retroactive.
That is how a bonus program works.
With respect to the structure of NB Power, I fully agree with the Leader of the Opposition. We
inherited from the previous government a structure and a governance at NB Power that were broken.
As I said yesterday, we are going to fix it.
017 11:05
Mr. Alward: I cannot believe today that we have a minister standing on the floor of this Legislature
defending the insidious bonuses that were given to NB Power officials when the people of New
Brunswick—the shareholders of New Brunswick, the ratepayers, and every individual in New
Brunswick—have a difficult time paying their bills. Last year, we saw bills increased by a
significant percentage. How can this minister stand and defend the bonuses for NB Power
executives? This government states that energy is one of its main priorities, but this minister has
failed the shareholders and the ratepayers of New Brunswick. To the Premier, how can the people
of New Brunswick take this government seriously if the minister that the government has put in
charge of one of its top priorities does not even know what is going on in his own portfolio?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I have said already, the facts are that the bonus program was not retroactive. It
was based on the year 2007-08, on performance by those senior managers and by the board of
directors. It is a day-to-day operational decision by the board of directors on how the remuneration
is paid to NB Power employees. If the opposition members did not like that, I am not quite sure why
they put that governance in place while they were in government, but they did. It is broken, and we
are going to fix it.
M. P. Robichaud : Plus on pèle l’oignon d’Énergie NB, de ce ministre et de ce ministère, plus ça
sent, et je peux vous dire que ça ne sent pas bon.
Le ministre peut-il confirmer à la Chambre que le salaire du président-directeur général d’Énergie
NB était rétroactif à partir de mars 2006? Son salaire comme dirigeant d’Énergie NB était-il
rétroactif à partir de mars 2006?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I have already suggested, the NB Power board of directors sets remuneration
for all the senior managers at NB Power, and that is set by a governance put forward by the previous
government, which is in opposition now and which is holier-than-thou today. This is not something
that it would ever have done. The former government did it, and we are going to fix it.
We appreciate and understand, on both sides of the House, that the governance of NB Power must
be fixed. We have had consultation, and the plan is in place. We hope to roll it out early in the new
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year to fix the problem of the previous government. If the facts be known, the previous government
probably spent millions and millions and millions of dollars putting in place that broken governance.
M. P. Robichaud : On voit un ministre et un gouvernement désespérés. On voit un ministre et un
gouvernement qui ne savent pas ce qui se passe à Énergie NB. La semaine dernière, ce n’était pas
un problème. Vendredi dernier, lorsque le premier ministre a livré son discours, ce n’était pas un
problème. Soudainement, lundi, cela devient le problème numéro un du gouvernement. Pourquoi?
Parce que les médias en ont fait toute une histoire, et c’est devenu le problème numéro un du
gouvernement. Le ministre peut-il dire ce qu’il veut, mais la réalité, c’est que le salaire a été
augmenté de façon rétroactive depuis mars 2006, et les bonis très généreux font en sorte que, à lui
seul, le président-directeur général d’Énergie a reçu au-delà de 500 000 $ des contribuables du
Nouveau-Brunswick.
Le ministre peut-il confirmer à la Chambre s’il a lu les procès-verbaux d’Énergie NB qui avisaient
de cette augmentation de salaire et des bonis très généreux accordés aux dirigeants d’Énergie NB?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I will reiterate in the House that a bonus program is not retroactive. The bonus
program was put in place for after the performance period has ended. With respect to the governance
of NB Power—which we, on both sides of the House, admit must be fixed—the previous
government took that report in 1999, I believe, and had five years to look at it. I appreciate and
understand the complexity of it. The previous government took five years to put that governance in
place, and it did not work. We have been on this job for just over two years, and we are going to
have that fixed by early next year.
018 11:10
M. P. Robichaud : Le ministre et le gouvernement sont en train de créer une situation terrible au
sein d’Énergie NB. Le ministre se vantait, il n’y a pas tellement longtemps de cela, du fait qu’il
parlait quotidiennement aux dirigeants d’Énergie NB. Le ministre vient de nous dire qu’il ne lit pas
les procès-verbaux des réunions d’Énergie NB, même s’il les reçoit. Le ministre était au courant de
l’augmentation des salaires et des bonis à Énergie NB, mais il n’a rien fait et il a essayé de balayer
cette histoire sous le tapis.
Durant la dernière campagne électorale, les Libéraux ont fait campagne en disant que leur priorité
était l’énergie, l’éducation et l’économie. Ils ont failli à la tâche en ce qui concerne l’énergie. Le
ministre ne lit même pas les procès-verbaux des réunions d’Énergie NB. Il approuve les
augmentations de salaires ou bien il ne sait ce qui se passe.
Le ministre admettra-t-il à la Chambre qu’il a failli à sa responsabilité en tant que ministre
responsable d’Énergie NB? Il devait dicter à Énergie NB la vision du gouvernement et ne pas
autoriser les augmentations de salaires et de bénéfices comme il l’a fait. Ce n’est pas acceptable.
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Aucun citoyen du Nouveau-Brunswick n’accepte cela aujourd’hui. Le ministre admettra-t-il qu’il
a failli à sa tâche en tant que ministre responsable d’Énergie NB?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I am pleased to hear the member for Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou bragging about
the energy hub and what we are doing and where we are going. I would like to talk a bit about that
and perhaps about wind power in the north. The fact of the matter is that the previous government
could not deliver wind power to northern New Brunswick. This government is delivering wind to
northern New Brunswick.
When we took over and we started talking about the energy hub and the energy quarter and what we
wanted to do with New Brunswick, placing it in the forefront of not only Atlantic Canada but also
North America, the previous government wanted to take credit for that. It would not have known
of the energy hub. It did not know what it was. We have gone down to the New England states on
a regular basis. When we first started going down there, they had to find out where New Brunswick
was. They did not know where it was. When we go down there now, they not only know where we
are, but they also know what we have to offer, and they know where we are going and what we are
doing. They are fully supportive.
Mr. Holder: Now that the minister has had 24 hours to read the minutes that should have been read
months ago, and now that we know that the CEO is slated to receive more money in bonuses over
the last few years than the money designated for the Warm Hearts, Warm Homes program, I want
the minister to tell us whether or not he will show leadership and redirect those funds to the Warm
Hearts, Warm Homes program so that the New Brunswickers who are most in need get the money,
not the CEO of NB Power.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I am pleased to see the member for Saint John Portland bring up the program that
we introduced this winter for those who need it the most. The Minister of Social Development, Hon.
Mrs. Schryer, has done a great job of ensuring that those folks who will need help with their heating
bills this winter will have it. She has increased their monthly stipend for electricity from $130 to
$150—$20 a month for six months. She has included an emergency fund for those folks. It has
increased from $270 to $550. That is an opportunity that the previous government had but did not
do anything about. Also, we have included the Warm Hearts, Warm Homes program that the
member opposite talked about. It is a program where New Brunswickers are helping New
Brunswickers. I cannot believe that the member for Edmundston—Saint-Basile would smile and
laugh at that. We put a program in place where New Brunswickers are helping New Brunswickers.
This is a wonderful program. You talk about the energy sector and what it is . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Holder: The minister is quite right. I did raise the program, which is underfunded by $4.5
million. The members opposite do not get it. While this government has been asleep at the switch,
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New Brunswickers are being forced to turn off the switch. I want a yes or no answer: Will they take
those funds and redirect them to the home heating program?
019 11:15
Hon. Mr. Keir: The member for Saint John Portland can rant and rave and turn red, but the fact of
the matter is that the program we have in place is a wonderful program of New Brunswickers
helping New Brunswickers. It is administered by the Salvation Army, which is the largest
nongovernment administrator of social services in the country. There is nobody I would rather
partner with in this Warm Hearts, Warm Homes program than the Salvation Army. The Minister of
Business New Brunswick has also been involved in ensuring that every Service New Brunswick
location in the province will be involved so that those folks who need help the most will get that
help.
Mr. Holder: We are going to try this one more time: Yes or no, will they take those funds and
redirect them to the New Brunswickers who are most in need? The government members cannot
answer that question. Maybe they need to pick up the phone and call Premier McGuire, because he
is running this circus of a government. Yes or no, will they take that money and redirect it to the
people who need it the most?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I have already mentioned, we have put some wonderful programs in place for
the people who need it the most. They are the folks we want to look after. I think Minister Schryer
and the Department of Social Development have done a wonderful job to ensure that funding is in
place for all those in New Brunswick who need it. We will carry that on. The Warm Hearts, Warm
Homes program is a wonderful program. You can rant and rave and holler all you want. The fact of
the matter is that it is a program that is being administered by the Salvation Army, that is there is
help New Brunswickers, and it is New Brunswickers contributing to that fund who are going to help
New Brunswickers.
M. Volpé : Ce que le ministre est en train de faire démontre un manque de respect, et c’est une honte
pour le gouvernement provincial. Je voudrais savoir une chose du ministre ce matin. Maintenant
qu’il a lu le procès-verbal... Une décision avait été prise par le gouvernement précédent voulant
qu’il n’y ait pas d’augmentation de salaire et aucun boni pour le PDG. Quand le ministre a-t-il
changé cette décision afin de permettre une augmentation de salaire au PDG, rétroactive jusqu’en
mars 2006, alors que l’élection a eu lieu en septembre 2006? Je pose une question bien claire au
ministre ce matin. Quand a-t-il autorisé Énergie NB à accorder une augmentation rétroactive?
Hon. Mr. Keir: For the information of the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs, the previous
government had a bonus program and salary increase in place that the president and CEO got in
2004. It cancelled it in 2005-06. We cancelled it in 2007-08. We cancelled it in 2007-08 because of
the economic times. They were moving forward at the time on a 9.65% . . . I remember the member
for Sussex suggesting that it might have been a 25% increase. It was a 9.65% increase at the time,
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and we did not think it was fair to New Brunswickers for them to get that bonus when they were also
going forward for an increase in electricity rates, so we cancelled it for that year. Frankly, it was the
previous government that negotiated the contract with the current president and CEO who had those
bonuses in his contract.
M. Volpé : Maintenant que le ministre a lu le procès-verbal qu’il reçoit après chaque réunion... J’ai
été ministre de l’Énergie et ministre des Finances. Je sais que ces deux ministres reçoivent les
procès-verbaux. On a appris en fin de semaine que le ministre ne les avait pas lus. Maintenant qu’il
les a lus, le ministre peut-il confirmer qu’on parle aussi d’une rétroactivité jusqu’en 2004 en ce qui
concerne l’augmentation de 5 %? Le ministre peut-il confirmer qu’on ne parle pas seulement de
2006, mais qu’on retourne jusqu’en 2004? Le ministre peut-il nous confirmer cela? Il fallait qu’il
l’approuve.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I will say it again: It does not matter how many times the opposition wants to say
that it is retroactive, the bonus program is not retroactive. The bonus program comes into play after
the year’s performance is completed and the Board of Directors of NB Power reviews that
performance. It reviewed that performance at the end of March 2008 and gave them the bonus for
2007-08 in July 2008. After the performance was completed, the review was done, and the bonus
was paid.
020 11:20
M. Volpé : Le ministre n’a pas répondu à ma question. J’ai parlé de 2004. Le ministre est en train
de nous dire qu’il y a eu des augmentations des salaires et des primes en raison de l’augmentation
des tarifs imposés aux entreprises et aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. Est-ce parce que le projet de
Point Lepreau ne sera pas terminé à temps et coûtera plus cher que ce qui était prévu dans le budget?
Est-ce parce que des gens meurent gelés dans leur maison? Est-ce que ce sont vos critères pour
accorder une prime?
Le ministre nous a clairement dit hier que ce n’est pas sa responsabilité. Le ministre des Finances
nous a dit l’an dernier qu’il avait demandé à une certaine corporation, soit la Société des alcools du
Nouveau-Brunswick, d’apporter 16 millions de dollars de plus dans les coffres du gouvernement.
Pourquoi le ministre des Finances aurait-il l’autorité de diriger une certaine corporation alors que
le ministre de l’Énergie n’a pas la même autorité? C’est un manque flagrant de compétence et de
respect envers les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick. Il a perdu la confiance des gens du Nouveau-
Brunswick.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I find the question from the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs a little strange,
because I think he was Minister of Energy when this whole governance was put in place. The fact
is, he knows very well that the day-to-day operations of NB Power are run by the board of directors
of NB Power. When he stands up and says that he told them not to do it in 2004, or whichever year
he suggested, that is not the case. He would have sat down with the Chairman of NB Power and the
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President of NB Power and said: Here is what the government is doing. We expect you to take our
lead. That is exactly what we have done. The governance of NB Power is broken, and we inherited
it from the previous government. We are going to fix it.
Public Works
Mr. Steeves: This morning, we have residents inside and outside the gallery because of Bill 14.
They seem to be using their rights. This bill gives more discretionary power to the minister, with
retroactive power. Can the Minister of Supply and Services tell me why?
Hon. Mr. Doherty: In fact, this bill is not about the Petitcodiac River project. This bill gives legal
authority to the Minister of Supply and Services to carry out projects which are done in the interest
of the public.
Mr. Steeves: I never mentioned the Petitcodiac River, if the minister listened to my question.
In New Brunswick, it is fairly common for work crews to ask property owners for permission to
store materials and equipment on their property while work is progressing. This certainly happens
with road construction and repair. Rather than passing a law which gives the minister the power to
declare land for public works, and then proceed to deposit materials and to construct drains and
roads, this government could have consulted with property owners to see whether those drastic
powers were even needed. Will the Minister of Supply and Services tell the House how many
meetings he has attended with local property owners? How many homeowners in the area has he
met, and how many discussions has he had concerning the government’s new plan?
Hon. Mr. Doherty: As you know, with major projects, there is always extensive consultation that
takes place. All interest groups are invited to community meetings. As a matter of fact, with regard
to a project in your very own riding—the restoration of the Petitcodiac River—there were 15
consultation sessions, involving over 1 000 people. With each and every project, there are license
agreements negotiated with the individual landlords. Every effort is made to accommodate the
landlord. In fact, as a government, we highly respect the rights of each and every landlord here in
New Brunswick.
Petitcodiac River
Mr. Fitch: What about the landowners, not the landlords? I have the speech that the minister made
when he brought forward Bill 14, and all he talked about was the Petitcodiac River restoration. We
have some inconsistency here. There are members of the Petitcodiac Citizens Coalition here today,
and I am going to ask the minister to meet with them. I will tell you why. On December 6, 2006,
Roly MacIntyre, who was Minister of Supply and Services at the time, said that the provincial
government would abide by the 17 conditions listed and published, as the proponent of the
restoration of the Petitcodiac River.
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021 11:25
At the public hearings that occurred in Salisbury and Moncton just recently, the officers of AMEC
disclosed that they were not being required to conform with the regulations and conditions that I
previously mentioned. This is a violation of the protective and reasonable measures imposed on the
proponent to limit access and abusive actions that might harm the public good. We feel that the
minister needs to recommit to the citizens here today . . . I would like him to commit to a meeting
and say that he will commit to the 17 issues to which the Minister of Supply and Services
committed.
Hon. S. Graham: I want to stand on this very important issue. Lacking in this debate . . . Actually,
for the first seven years that the Conservatives were in power, they could not take a position on the
restoration of the Petitcodiac River. Following an exhaustive environmental impact assessment, our
government has taken a position. We are going to see and witness one of the first rivers in Canada
to be rehabilitated in over two decades.
The question remains . . . In this budget, we are investing over $18 million for the restoration of this
river. What is unclear to date is the Leader of the Opposition’s position. He has yet to take a position
on any contentious issue in this province, because he is abdicating his leadership. The bottom line
is this: Does the opposition support this project or not?
Mr. Fitch: What we see here is an inconsistent government. The minister just said that Bill 14 is
not about the Petitcodiac River restoration, and the Premier got up and said it is. You two need to
get together.
As for the $18 million that was talked about in the budget, is that the same as the $20 million that
you talked about in last year’s budget? Are you double-dipping on announcements? Here is the
concern, and I am glad the Premier brought it up. It is our expectation that the dikes being built at
the Jones property are not in accordance with the provincial Clean Water Act and a number of other
issues. This is in violation of the 17 issues that your government committed to when it said it would
go ahead with the Petitcodiac River work. Bill 14 was brought forward in this House so that the
government would not be held responsible for violating these issues. Will the minister meet with
the citizens who are here who represent over 1 000 people within the Petitcodiac watershed and
explain why there are such inconsistencies as the government is portraying today?
Hon. S. Graham: Our government committed to $20 million over two years. Last year, $2 million
was invested, and we are investing over $18 million in this fiscal period to rehabilitate one of the
first rivers to be rehabilitated in our country.
What is still missing . . . I will give a commitment that officials from the department will meet with
the stakeholders, as they have done throughout the whole process. That is important, I concur.
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However, those gates will be opened in 2010. What remains to be seen is the position of the official
opposition. Is it supportive of this project or not?
Mr. Betts: On November 29, 2005, there was a public hearing on our EIA. We paid for it. The
federal Liberal government did not even pay its half. It was our EIA, on fish passage, on page 7. The
government members have not even read this report. Not a single member in government was at that
meeting, and they talk about thousands who were consulted. The research showed that there is
pollution below the causeway. On page 14 of this report, its says that without considering or having
secondary sewage treatment as an option, they should not go forward with any kind of gate opening.
We have had precedents. In 1988, the Liberal government opened the gates. The lake became silted
and polluted, and Moncton city council passed a resolution saying that the gates would be closed.
Spending $18 million or $20 million will not restore a river. It will destroy a lake without secondary
treatment and without the proper bridge span. With that in mind, will the Minister of Environment
take action to prevent the pollution of this body of water? A sum of $20 million will not cover a
bridge span or the secondary treatment of sewage.
Hon. S. Graham: The member opposite is correct. There was a joint EIA, funded through the
federal government and the former Conservative government. Officials from the department did
work in that process. However, the fact remains that the previous government could not make a
decision. Our government has made a decision respecting the restoration of this river. We are one
of the only jurisdictions in Canada today that is seeing the restoration of a river occur.
022 11:30
I will set the record straight. The Department of Fisheries and Oceans, working with officials from
the provincial government, did collaborate on the EIA process. Instrumental in securing the funding
at the time was Claudette Bradshaw, the former minister at the federal level, to see the EIA process
undertaken. I want to be very clear on this today: The $20 million that is being invested is to put in
place the riverbank protection that is needed. Then, the gates will open in 2010. Continuing
monitoring will occur. An exhaustive process is in place today. What is missing is this: What is the
position of the Conservative Party of New Brunswick?
Mr. Speaker: Time. The time for question period is now over.
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NB Power
Mr. Alward: The Minister of Energy says that the reason the board of directors decided to
retroactively increase the salaries of NB Power’s top executives is that the structure is broken. The
only thing that seems to be broken is the minister’s logic. Public opinion is clear. New Brunswickers
do not support government’s decision to reward some of the highest-paid NB Power executives with
six-figure bonuses and retroactive pay hikes. Where in the structure of NB Power does it say that
the government has to hand out these large bonuses and retroactive pay hikes? If not illegal, they
are certainly immoral.
Hon. Mr. Keir: I thank the Leader of the Opposition for the question. The fact is that, in 2004, the
then new President and CEO of NB Power had a contract that was negotiated by the Lord
government. Included in that contract was the opportunity for a bonus in every year of that contract.
Mr. Alward: Very clearly, on March 27, 2006, the then Premier canceled the bonuses. Yesterday,
the minister said that it was a governance problem. I completely agree. I wholeheartedly agree. The
problem is on the front lines, directly across from us. It is with the Premier, it is with the Minister
of Finance, and it is with the Minister of Energy.
The minister said it was not important whether he read the minutes because the structure was
broken. If the structure is broken, wouldn’t the minister want to be on top of things even more? In
its 2006 election platform, the government promised to establish regular reporting between the CEO
of NB Power and the Minister of Energy. The government has been in power for two years now.
Why has it not fulfilled this promise?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Over a four-year period, up to 2004-05, the previous government, because of a
contractual obligation, paid a bonus to the President and CEO of NB Power. In 2005-06, there was
not a cancellation. There was a contractual requirement, and there was an agreement with the
President and CEO of NB Power to freeze that contractual requirement. As a matter of fact, in 2006-
07, this government did the exact same thing. We spoke with the current CEO of NB Power, and
there was an agreement to freeze that contractual requirement that was put in place by the previous
government.
020 14:20
Mr. Alward: The minister has not said why they went back retroactively to freeze the salaries of
the highest-paid people at NB Power. The minister is oblivious to what is going on around him. He
has stated that he does not read the minutes. The minister has stated that he has no control over what
goes on at NB Power. Clearly, he does not know what is going on. Will the Premier tell us why he
even has a Minister of Energy?
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Hon. Mr. Keir: The Daily Gleaner states:
NB Power salaries are set by the corporation’s board of directors, who are appointed by the
provincial cabinet but who do not answer directly to government.
Energy Minister Jeannot Volpe said he has seen the figures and believes NB Power should remain
competitive to attract qualified workers.
“Usually you’re paying for their knowledge, for their capacity to run the business,” he said, adding
the wages might seem high to someone earning only $12,000 or $15,000 a year, but not to people
who are earning similar wages to NB Power employees. He also said he believes the wages are
comparable to the private sector.
I know that the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs likes to ask: Are you the same person now as you
were before? I would like to ask him: Is it the same member for Madawaska-les-Lacs now who was
there in 2001?
Mr. Volpé: I am the same, and that is why I can stand in this House and say that the wages that were
approved at that time were $250 000. The CEO came back to us for an increase, and we said no to
it. My question for the minister is this. If we had said no . . . He said there was a form of helping the
CEO with a bonus. When he came to us, we said no, no, and no to the wages. What has changed in
performance that you are allowed to go back to 2006 and 2004 to give something that was refused
by the former government?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I understand the frustration level. I understand that both the Leader of the
Opposition and the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs are essentially asking us to fix a problem that
was there under their government. We are going to do that. As I said yesterday, there is a
governance issue that must be addressed, and we are going to address it. We have a plan in place.
We will be moving forward early in the new year to address that governance structure.
Mr. Volpé: This morning, we do not see my frustration; it is the frustration of all the ratepayers and
taxpayers of New Brunswick.
The minister is saying that the governance was broken. Before 2006, the same structure—unless you
have changed the Electricity Act, which I have here—allowed the government, the minister, and the
Premier to say no to NB Power regarding bonuses and wage increases. What in the government
structure has changed, except for the difference in ministers?
Hon. Mr. Keir: The member opposite knows the issue very well. The issue is that the previous
government put a structure in place that went halfway. It went halfway, not the full way. The former
government put a structure in place that was going to make NB Power competitive in the
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marketplace. How many other competitors are there in the marketplace? None. Why is that? No
competition wants to come into the market with the utility the way that it is currently set up.
Mr. Volpé: The structure that was put in place was exactly to open the market. They stopped it.
This morning, the minister is saying that this is not his fault. However, yesterday, he was able to
send a letter to the CEO and say: Cancel the bonuses. Do the right thing. Send a letter to the board
also and say that it should cancel all the retroactive payments that were given, which are not
acceptable to the ratepayers and the taxpayers. This is completely immoral.
021 14:25
New Brunswickers cannot accept that the minister has signed off on something that says that they
are allowed to go back to 2004 for wage and bonus increases. That does not make any sense when
there are no performance criteria. Last summer, in July, in a public meeting, they said: Those are
the criteria for bonuses. Before, in 2006, 2005, and 2004, there were none. Do the right thing today
and cancel this wage increase.
Hon. Mr. Keir: The member opposite suggests that it stopped after 2006, that the structure changed.
The fact of the matter is that the new Electricity Act came into play in 2004. The opposition
members were in government for two years after that to make those changes, to move NB Power
forward, and to make it competitive. The member opposite suggests that it is now in a competitive
environment. Let’s deal with the facts: There is no other competition in the market with NB Power
right now. The former government had the chance to fix it, but it did not. We are going to fix it.
Politique de non-débranchement
M. P. Robichaud : Durant la dernière campagne électorale, dans le Pacte pour le changement, les
Libéraux ont promis d’établir une Politique de non-débranchement entre le 1er novembre et le 31
mars de chaque année. Si les Libéraux ne se souviennent pas de ceci, je peux leur en faire parvenir
une copie. Cela faisait partie de leur engagement et c’est une promesse qui avait été fort bien
accueillie par la population en général, je dois l’admettre. Le ministre de l’Énergie peut-il rapporter
à la Chambre combien de personnes dans le besoin ont vu leur électricité être débranchée entre le
1er novembre et le 31 mars de l’an dernier, suite à l’implantation de votre Politique de non-
débranchement?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I will get the member opposite the exact numbers and get back to the House, but
I can tell the member opposite that, since the no-disconnect policy went in, compared to the previous
government’s, it went down by half.
M. P. Robichaud : Encore une fois, on se rend compte que le ministre ne sait pas ce qui se passe
au sein de son ministère. S’il ne le sait pas, je vais le lui dire. L’électricité de 1 581 personnes au
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Nouveau-Brunswick exactement a été débranchée l’hiver dernier. alors que vous aviez promis de
mettre en place une Politique de non-débranchement. Je vais le répéter pour le ministre. L’électricité
de 1 581 personnes a été débranchée. Le ministre peut-il reconnaître à la Chambre que la Politique
de non-débranchement des Libéraux n’a pas fonctionné l’hiver dernier? Quelles mesures seront
mises en place cette année pour s’assurer que cette même situation ne se reproduira pas, que
l’électricité de 1 581 personnes ne sera pas débranchée et que nous ne connaîtrons pas des situations
dramatiques telles que celles de l’hiver dernier? Des gens ont perdu la vie parce que leur électricité
a été débranchée. Quelles mesures le ministre a-t-il mises en place pour corriger cette situation et
pour respecter la promesse que son parti a faite à la population du Nouveau-Brunswick?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I just mentioned, I will get the exact numbers for the member opposite and
report back to the House. With respect to the no-disconnect policy, as part of the energy program
that Minister Schryer and I announced a month ago, we also included a committee, including the
Department of Energy, NB Power, and stakeholders, to review this on a regular basis and to get a
monthly report on what the no-disconnects are and what the no-disconnects were for.
M. P. Robichaud : Le ministre vient de nous dire qu’il nous donnera l’information quand il sera
informé par son ministre au sujet de la Politique de non-débranchement, à qui elle sert et à quoi elle
sert. Le Parti libéral a fait campagne sur cette question. Cela a été promis pendant la campagne
électorale, il y a deux ans de cela. Le ministre de l’Énergie ne comprend pas encore la Politique de
non-débranchement et il ne peut dire à la Chambre combien de personnes ont vécu un
débranchement d’électricité l’hiver dernier. Pourtant, nous avons cette information, et le Front
commun pour la justice sociale l’a également. L’électricité de 1 581 personnes a été débranchée
l’hiver dernier.
022 14:30
Cela démontre très clairement que le ministre de l’Énergie n’est pas à la hauteur de sa tâche et de
son ministère. Il ne sait pas ce qui se passe au sein de son ministère. Alors que des gens ont de la
difficulté à joindre les deux bouts et à payer leur facture d’électricité, ce même ministre autorise des
augmentations faramineuses pour des hauts dirigeants d’Énergie NB. On parle de montants
incroyables qui atteignent presque un demi million de dollars.
Le ministre dira-t-il à la Chambre quelles modifications il entend apporter pour faire en sorte que
les gens ne seront pas...
Le président : Votre temps est écoulé.
Hon. Mr. Keir: As we have always said, it is incumbent on everyone to pay his or her power bill.
It is incumbent on everybody, but for those folks who need help and who need it the most, we have
put programs in place through the Department of Social Development and through Warm Hearts,
Warm Homes. We are going to make sure that we help those folks who absolutely need it the most.
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The no-disconnect policy was very clear that it is incumbent on everybody to pay his or her power
bill. People have to communicate with NB Power in order to let NB Power know they have issues
in paying their power bills. If they make that communication with NB Power and it can be worked
out with some form of payment or least direction to the right help, whether it is through the
Department of Social Development or the Warm Hearts, Warm Homes program, we will ensure
those folks are looked after this coming winter.
Mr. Northrup: It is not disrespect; it is respect, for the good people of New Brunswick.
Point Lepreau
Is the Minister of Energy aware of the delay at Point Lepreau with difficulties with the tooling
performance and the recovery turbines being back in the United Kingdom? Can he tell the good
people of New Brunswick that this will not affect the completion date of September 30, 2009, of this
$1.4-billion project?
Hon. Mr. Keir: That is a fair question. The fact of the matter is, the turbines have headed back to
the United Kingdom. At this point, Siemens and everybody involved in the schedule suggest that
there is no impact to the schedule of the refurbishing of Point Lepreau by those turbines going back
and being reworked and being sent back to Saint John.
Mr. Northrup: Over the last week, the people have lost trust in the Graham government and the
Minister of Energy. The minister has not read the minutes from NB Power, so this would say that
he is not taking an active role in the largest investment in New Brunswick, that being Point Lepreau.
People are scared. How will the minister assure the good people of New Brunswick that this project
will finish on time and on budget?
Hon. Mr. Keir: From the very beginning, we have suggested that this refurbishment of Point
Lepreau was probably the most important and biggest project in the history of the Department of
Energy within our responsibility and mandate with NB Power. NB Power has said from the
beginning that it understands the importance of this project being done on budget and on time. It is
a very complex project.
I have been involved in projects in the past. I have been involved in the frigate program at Saint John
Shipbuilding. Early on in that project, they were behind schedule and over budget. There were folks
hollering from everywhere that the sky was going to fall, and at the end of the day, over the period
of time, that frigate program became a success story for, frankly, a wonderful shipyard in Saint John.
I anticipate that NB Power and AECL will do their darndest to ensure that the schedule and the
budget of this project is met on time and on schedule.
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Mr. Northrup: We are definitely not on time, and we are not on schedule as of today. The Minister
of Energy knows that, and everybody in New Brunswick knows that.
I want to repeat what your government said in the Charter for Change: Regular meetings will take
place between the CEO of NB Power, who is in charge of Point Lepreau, and the minister himself.
Will the minister confirm that these meetings take place, and if so, does the CEO tell him everything
about Point Lepreau?
023 14:35
Hon. Mr. Keir: As a matter of fact, I get a monthly report from NB Power on the refurbishment of
Point Lepreau and where it stands. If the member from Sussex would like a copy, I would be more
than willing to share a copy of that report with him. Is it behind schedule right now? Yes, it is. I do
not think that that knowledge is a secret to the opposition. The President and CEO of NB Power has
stated publicly that it is behind schedule. NB Power and AECL are working to overcome that delay
and to have that project finished on budget and on time.
NB Power
Mr. Fitch: I have a question for the Minister of Finance. He is a member of the board of the New
Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation. I am just wondering if he attends meetings with
representatives of his department. The Minister of Energy is invited. Does the Minister of Energy
attend those meetings?
Hon. V. Boudreau: The member opposite is correct. As Minister of Finance, I act as Chairman of
the New Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation, and the Minister of Energy acts as deputy
chairman of the corporation. As far as I can recall, he has been to every single meeting we have had
since forming the government.
Mr. Fitch: I just want the Minister of Finance to confirm this. At those meetings of the New
Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation, are the minutes of those meetings distributed to other
members of Cabinet, such as the Minister of Energy and the Premier? Are the minutes from the NB
Power board meetings also distributed at those meetings?
Hon. V. Boudreau: The New Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation essentially acts as the bank,
if you will, for NB Power. It is a liaison between the government and NB Power in terms of
financing. When NB Power is conducting projects such as the refurbishment of Point Lepreau, for
example, and when it needs to borrow funds for that, the New Brunswick Electric Finance
Corporation borrows that money on behalf of NB Power, through the province. The matters we deal
with in the New Brunswick Electrical Finance Corporation are related to the financial aspects of the
business—the long-term borrowing, for example, that is necessary in order to conduct these various
projects.
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Mr. Fitch: I need to ask the minister this: When things of financial interest come to the New
Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation, which also includes minutes of board meetings, do you,
the Minister of Finance, and the Premier take the time to read those minutes, to go over those
reviews, or to look over the monthly reports? Do they all end up in the same place that the minutes
of the board of directors meetings go to when they go to the Minister of Energy’s department—in
the waste can?
Hon. V. Boudreau: As I mentioned, the Minister of Energy and I sit on the board of the New
Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation. The Premier does not. The board minutes of the NB Power
board of directors do not come to the New Brunswick Electric Finance Corporation What comes to
that corporation is information pertaining to the financing of the various ongoing projects that are
being handled by NB Power. We simply act as a bank for them. We do not get involved in any of
the day-to-day operations. We are simply there as a lending agency, as you will, to make sure that
they have the necessary funds to conduct projects such as the refurbishment of Point Lepreau.
Mr. Alward: What is very clear today is that the web is entangling a number of ministers this
afternoon.
The following question is from the Ask the Premier initiative. It clearly reflects the outrage felt by
New Brunswickers. To the Premier: How could he, in good conscience, allow Mr. Hay’s salary and
retroactive pay to be endorsed by his government when the citizens of New Brunswick see no end
to high power bills and a reduction in services? Has the Premier forgotten his commitment to the
citizens of this province?
Hon. Mr. Keir: This is from a Telegraph-Journal editorial from this morning. We all like to read
the paper. It states:
The utility has a governance problem. . . .
Since Premier Bernard Lord broke the Crown corporation into a series of companies, there has
been a tug-of-war over who manages NB Power. . . .
This is no way to run a business or a Crown corporation.
The Graham government vowed to do better, and to an extent it has.
024 14:40
Mr. Alward: For two days, the Premier has refused to stand on this issue and show any leadership
on this issue at all. He has hung his minister out to dry to deal with this issue. This government is
failing the people of New Brunswick. We have a Minister of Energy who does not know what is
going on at NB Power. We have a government that keeps deferring questions to NB Power, and we
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have a Chair of NB Power who refuses to speak to anyone. Someone needs to answer to the people
of New Brunswick, who are the true ratepayers and shareholders of NB Power.
I am calling for the government to immediately convene the Standing Committee on Crown
Corporations so that we can get to the bottom of what the government does not want to talk about.
The members on this side of the House are prepared to sit at any time of the day, as early as
tomorrow. Will the Premier direct the Chair of the standing committee to immediately convene
meetings to review NB Power?
Hon. S. Graham: I stood in this House on Tuesday and answered a number of questions pertaining
to this issue. It must be noted that, when the member says I have not answered questions on this
issue, the fact is that I have.
Again, it comes back to the fact that there is a structure within NB Power that needs to be fixed. We
are working on it. There are a number of reports that we are reviewing. We have received
information from NB Power. We have also had two independent consultants undertake a complete
review, which worked in consultation with the opposition.
It is clear today that, as we move forward, we need to put in place a structure that best represents
the interests of the ratepayers, while, at the same time, creates a competitive marketplace for the
province of New Brunswick. It is a balanced approach. It is a challenge, because the former
government wrestled with that issue for seven years and could not bring forward the structure that
was needed.
Today, we hear the opposition saying that more needs to be done. We are going to be taking action
in the new year. However, what remains to be seen is this: What would the opposition do? The
member opposite clearly has not outlined his idea of what the new structure should look like.
Mr. Alward: We said no to bonuses at NB Power. The Minister of Finance said that we were
shortsighted. However, this week, this government followed the leadership on this side of the House.
Finally, the Premier stood up on a question today. It has been two days since he stood up on the
issue of NB Power. I will ask the Premier again: Is he prepared to do away with the retroactive pay
increases that the CEO and vice presidents received that went all the way back to March 2006?
Hon. S. Graham: It is important to note that, over a four-year period, under a contract that was put
in place by the former government and the board of directors at that time, there was one period when
a bonus was paid out by the former Conservative government. In the next period, because of the
financial challenges facing the province, that program was canceled by making a request to the
board. Similarly, on this side of the House, this government requested, at one point, that a program
be canceled because of the rate hike application that was to be put in place. That request was made
to the board.
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Just this week, again, because of the current economic crisis facing the province and the belt-
tightening that is under way, we have requested that the board look at canceling this program. It is
our understanding that the board is meeting tomorrow and is going to comply. As with all other
boards that we have been instructed to work with, we are waiting to hear back from them.
Belt-tightening is under way. We cannot lose sight of the fact that the retention and recruitment of
key personnel is critical as we move forward with the refurbishment of Point Lepreau. This is not
the biggest project in the province. I have to set the member from Sussex straight. The biggest
project in the province today is actually the potash mine in his own riding.
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
025 14:45
Mr. Alward: We agree that the government followed our leadership to see a reduction in the
bonuses of NB Power, but the Premier has refused to say today whether he is prepared to do away
with the retroactive pay increases of hundreds of thousands of dollars clear back to 2006.
The Premier has also refused today to say that he would call the Standing Committee on Crown
Corporations immediately. We have issues that are outstanding on the no-disconnect policy and on
the refurbishment of Point Lepreau. The minister has admitted that he cannot guarantee what is
going to happen there and that it is currently behind schedule. We have issues of increasing energy
rates, and we have issues with retroactive salary hikes. Will the Premier stand today and commit to
immediately calling the Standing Committee on Crown Corporations to start sitting as early as
tomorrow?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I reiterate that the bonus program and the contractual issues that we faced from
2004 . . . There was a contract. We are not trying to point fingers and blame. It is just the facts. In
2004, there was a contractual agreement between the President and CEO of NB Power and the
previous government. Included in that contractual commitment were salary increases and bonuses
to be paid. In 2004, the previous government paid the bonus. I do not recall you taking it back. In
2005-06, yes, you froze that bonus. In 2006-07, we did the same thing. It is a contractual
requirement and agreement that we had with NB Power.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over. Minister.
Hon. Mr. Keir: Mr. Speaker, if I could, I have the information for the member for Lamèque-
Shippagan-Miscou, if you would like me to share it. Technology is a wonderful thing.
The no-disconnects from November 1, 2007, to March 31, 2008, were 610. The number that the
member opposite suggests is for a full year and also includes folks who moved and had their power
disconnected.
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M. P. Robichaud : Il s’agit de 610 cas de trop. Les parlementaires du côté du gouvernement avaient
promis de mettre en place une Politique de non-débranchement du service d’électricité, et le ministre
vient de prouver que 610 personnes ont vu leur électricité être débranchée. Que le chiffre soit 610,
comme le gouvernement le mentionne, ou 1 581, comme le Front commun pour la justice sociale
le mentionne, c’est beaucoup trop.
La preuve concrète, c’est que, de la bouche même de son ministre, la promesse de non-
débranchement du service d’électricité est une autre promesse que les Libéraux n’ont pas respectée.
Toutefois, ils ont eu le culot de mettre cette promesse dans les 70 % des promesses respectées.
Encore une fois, les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick sont aux prises avec un gouvernement qui leur a
raconté des histoires pendant la campagne électorale et qui n’a pas respecté ses promesses. C’est ça
la priorité.
L’hon. S. Graham : J’aimerais répondre au député de Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou, car c’est
nécessaire de corriger ses erreurs encore une fois.
Hier, Monsieur le président, il a donné des chiffres...
(Exclamations.)
Mr. Speaker: Listen to the Premier.
L’hon. S. Graham : C’est nécessaire que les chiffres soient corrects. De Tide Head à Val-Comeau,
dans la Péninsule acadienne, incluant la région Chaleur, le ministère des Transports a fait des
investissements dans cette région pour un montant de 59,1 millions. L’année dernière, il s’agissait
de 48,6 millions.
Mr. Speaker: State your point of order.
026 14:50
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Let him state his point of order.
Point of Order
Mr. P. Robichaud: On a point of order, any minister, including the Premier, has the right to answer
to a question asked during question period. I never asked those kinds of questions to the Minister
of Transportation or to the Premier himself. I do not think that the Premier has the right to stand
during question period and answer a question that has never been asked on the floor of the House.
That is my point.
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Hon. Mr. Murphy: I am surprised that the Opposition House Leader would raise this, considering
that he knows full well that he cannot proscribe the answer of the first minister, who is answering
on behalf of any minister he chooses. This is his answer to the question posed. It was then Speaker
Harrison who made that ruling. You can respond as you see fit, or you do not have to respond at all.
The Premier is responding to the question posed.
027 14:55
Mr. Speaker: According to Rule 41(6):
If a Minister replies to a question taken as notice and answers it orally on a subsequent day, the
Member who asked the question shall be entitled to ask one supplementary question and the
Minister shall be entitled to respond.
In this case, the honourable Minister of Energy was answering and had no problem. On the second
one, the honourable Premier stood up in answer to a subsequent question that had been asked some
day before.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: It is not a question of truth. The honourable Premier was answering a question.
Hon. S. Graham: To add clarity, the rules of the House are very important. Again, I was answering
a question. We are allowed the final answer. The opposition asks the question, and the government
is allowed the final answer.
In the final answer, I was stating that it is important to set the record straight, and I am glad that this
minister was able to provide factual information because the information that had been presented
by the member from Shippagan was not correct. I said that, in correlation with that, I also wanted
to bring forward information that had been raised earlier this week on road building. That was the
information.
Not to create a precedent in this House, we can end question period here. I do not have to speak any
further. We will provide the information. I do not want to create discomfort on that side of the
House.
Mr. Speaker: As indicated, the minister answered the question, which he did. The Premier, on
behalf of any minister, can answer a question. As you just mentioned, honourable Premier, question
period is over. We will move on to new business.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
NB Power
Mr. Alward: Throughout the past week, New Brunswickers have watched this government operate
in full damage control. They have watched the Premier sit silent while hanging his Minister of
Energy out to dry. This government has refused to accept responsibility for its decisions or
accountability for its actions. The Premier and his colleagues have certainly had enough time to
think about whether they should, as the Minister of Energy said earlier this week, “do the right
thing”.
My question is for the Premier. Will you instruct your Minister of Energy to immediately rescind
the retroactive salary hikes that were secretly awarded to NB Power’s senior executives?
017 11:05
Hon. Mr. Keir: Again, let’s put the facts on the table. I know that there is a lot of noise out there,
but let’s put the facts on the table. A contract was negotiated with the Bernard Lord government in
2004. The bonus was paid in 2004, but it was frozen the next year. We froze it the year after. The
bonus went back in place for 2007-08. It was a contractual requirement by the previous government.
Mr. Alward: As a government, we said no to it—period. The current government secretly went
forward with retroactive salary increases.
New Brunswickers have lost the trust of this government. The minister and the Premier have both
demonstrated their ability to speak out of both sides of their mouths. It is truly unfortunate for New
Brunswickers that, after one week of asking questions in this House, there are now many more
unanswered questions.
Again, my question is for the Premier, not the Minister of Energy. If your actions are not illegal,
they are certainly immoral. In light of that, will you rescind the retroactive pay increases
immediately?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Again, the facts: The former government did not say no to it in 2004. The previous
government—most of those folks sitting across the way—said yes to it in 2004. In 2005-06, that
government spoke to NB Power and froze it. It was a contractual commitment. We said no to it in
2006 and 2007.
Mr. Alward: The minister can stand and try to divert the real question. The question that I asked
the Premier was this: Is he prepared to rescind the retroactive pay increases? This government
approved the retroactive pay increases secretly, hidden from all New Brunswickers.
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I think most New Brunswickers would agree with me when I say that the people of this province are
being led by a government that is lacking leadership on one of New Brunswick’s most important
institutions. This government has demonstrated a lack of responsibility, accountability, and
transparency. The government must bring more oversight to NB Power in order to restore New
Brunswickers’ confidence in it.
Yesterday, we proposed convening the Standing Committee on Crown Corporations to bring in the
CEO and president and the board of directors of the power company so that New Brunswickers
could get some answers with respect to this fiasco. Will the Premier do the right thing and be open
and transparent, as he said he would be in his Charter for Change, and bring the Standing
Committee on Crown Corporations to the Legislature?
Hon. S. Graham: What is important to note is that the former Conservative government set up a
contract. It was a very important contract, because we want to hire the best people to deliver results
at the utility. In that contract, there was provision for bonuses. The previous Conservative
government paid out a bonus. There were challenges in one fiscal year, and the board was asked to
suspend that bonus payment. At that time, they did not ask for it to be retroactive.
When NB Power requested a major rate increase, our government also said that belt tightening had
to occur internally. We requested to the board that a suspension be put in place. That was adhered
to. Also, one bonus was paid under the contractual obligations.
Moving forward to today, due to the economic uncertainty that we are seeing globally, we have once
again requested to the board that a suspension be put in place under the remuneration program. It
is our understanding that the board is going to move forward on that, as other government
departments are doing.
We are following the process that needs to be followed. We have said that the current governance
model needs to be improved, and we will be fixing that in the new year. Thank you.
Mr. Volpé: To the Premier, we accept that you said no to the bonus increase, but we are saying that
you said yes to the wage increase retroactive to 2006 and 2004. That is what we are asking. We
appreciate the fact that you said no to the bonuses, but you did approve the wage increase.
018 11:10
My question is for the Minister of Energy. He said that the Electricity Act was broken. Was the
minister aware that NB Power was asked by his government to sign a wind energy project for
hundreds of millions of dollars without a request for proposals? Have you read the minutes of that
board meeting?
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
Hon. Mr. Keir: We have certainly had discussions with NB Power many times on economic
development opportunities in New Brunswick, as I am sure the previous government, the present
opposition, did. We have had many discussions on opportunities, whether they be on renewable
energy, new nuclear energy, or new transmission lines. We discuss the opportunities regularly for
NB Power to get involved in economic development, or whether the private sector should be
investing in it.
Mr. Volpé: Again, I know that the minister has not read the minutes. That is normal for him. I will
read what Mr. Hay had to say to the board: The government was in favour of a power purchase
agreement concluded with SkyPower and Atcon. It was suggested to me at this meeting that NBP
could consider the purchase of additional wind energy without embarking on a public tendering
process.
So he brought it to the board. He said: Including the preference stated by the province of New
Brunswick that additional wind power be purchased by NB Power without embarking on a tendering
process, the NB Power board was unanimous in its direction to me that additional wind power
purchased by NB Power would be purchased through a public tendering process.
Why is that? The Electricity Act, which is broken, as the minister says, is there to protect New
Brunswickers. The Act states that you cannot go without an RFP. Can the minister confirm this? It
is in the minutes of the NB Power meeting. I hope you have read them. Can you confirm that the
government asked NB Power to go ahead on a project for hundreds of millions of dollars without
an RFP?
Hon. Mr. Keir: As I mentioned, we have had many discussions with NB Power on economic
development opportunities in New Brunswick. In terms of wind energy, we are looking to create an
industry—something that was, perhaps, lost on the previous government regarding renewable
opportunities in New Brunswick. In the whole seven years that it was in opposition, not one
windmill was turning in New Brunswick. We, on this side of the House, believe that renewable
energy is absolutely vital to the ratepayers of New Brunswick. We will do all we can to ensure that
not only do we get as many windmills as we can, but also that we build an industry around them.
Mr. Volpé: Windmill energy in New Brunswick was started in 2005, through a request for
proposals. If you cannot say the truth today, I will say it. There was a request for proposals.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Volpé: The minister said yesterday and the day before that the Act is broken. Is that because
he cannot feed his friends with this one? We know that, this year, the government has approved the
construction of nursing homes for hundreds of millions of dollars, without a request for proposals.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
On this one, we have a court document that says that, because NB Power went to a request for
proposals, it saved New Brunswickers $150 million over 20 years. The minister is saying today that
the Act is broken. The Act was there to protect New Brunswickers. I hope that the minister does not
intend to open up the Act so that he can feed his friends, as they have done for quite a few years.
Hon. S. Graham: We want to be very clear. There are always a number of economic development
opportunities presented to government. On the Miramichi, SkyPower, in conjunction with the Atcon
manufacturing company, wanted to create an industry where turbines, blades, and rotors could be
constructed. We took that opportunity to NB Power, which said, very clearly, that it could not be
sole-sourced. It had to go to a tendering process. That process was followed. An RFP was issued,
and today we see wind power development projects in Lamèque, outside the Bathurst region, and
in Albert County. I can say today, very clearly, that where the former government could not even
get the Grand Manan project off the ground, today we have the largest wind farm in Atlantic
Canada. The process worked.
019 11:15
M. P. Robichaud : Étant donné que le premier ministre a décidé de répondre à des questions ce
matin, ma question s’adresse à lui. Ma question est très simple, et je suis convaincu qu’il aura une
réponse pour moi ce matin. Dans l’éventualité d’un Point Lepreau II, le premier ministre peut-il
confirmer à la Chambre qu’il a demandé à Énergie NB de considérer un réacteur nucléaire
spécifique, c’est-à-dire un réacteur nucléaire EACL ACR-1000? Le premier ministre peut-il
confirmer à la Chambre qu’il a demandé à Énergie NB de prendre ce réacteur dans l’éventualité d’un
Point Lepreau II?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, I am not sure where the member opposite has been. Maybe he is not
following the facts and figures that have been presented today.
Clearly, we have started the process where a merchant power plant can be constructed by the private
sector in New Brunswick. This is a private sector consortium in partnership with Team CANDU.
There are a number of companies that are today looking at the advanced CANDU technology
through AECL. That has been an open process all along.
The member opposite has a hard time with numbers, and I think we have to set the record straight.
When he stands up and says that he did more in the north as Minister of Transportation, his best
capital budget put $28 million in District 1 and this Minister of Transportation put in $59 million.
The member opposite likes to play fast and loose with numbers, but these numbers speak for
themselves : a new wind power project in Lamèque, one that he could never deliver on, and over $59
million in District 1, which is the most roadwork in the history of this province in that district.
Mr. P. Robichaud: It is obvious that this government is in damage-control mode this morning.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
I feel that I have an obligation to refresh the Premier’s memory. If they do not read the minutes of
NB Power, we do, and I feel that the Premier should know the minutes of NB Power’s meeting that
took place Thursday, May 3, 2007. I will read from the minutes: Mr. Hay advised the board of a
meeting with the shareholders wherein NB Power was being asked to take the position that the
AECL ACR-1000 model was its technology of choice. The board questioned its role in the decision
taken by NB Power. The chair and the president undertook to have further discussions with the
Premier on the matter.
As far as I am concerned, Mr. Hay is the president and Mr. McQuire is the chair. Can the Premier
confirm to this House today that he instructed NB Power to take under consideration this specific
nuclear reactor without delaying for a request for proposal, as NB Power should normally do?
Hon. Mr. Keir: Perhaps I can take a minute to explain to the member for Lamèque-Shippagan-
Miscou how the private sector works. It is the private sector that is investing the money. It is the
private sector that has put forth the money for the feasibility study. It is the private sector that is
going around getting the investment to move forward on the second reactor. It is the private sector
that is going to move forward with the site licensing and EIA. The private sector is asking NB Power
to manage the new facility. Do you know why? It is because NB Power management of a nuclear
reactor is the absolute best in the world.
M. P. Robichaud : C’est étrange à quel point le premier ministre reste soudainement silencieux
lorsqu’on se réfère à des procès-verbaux des réunions d’Énergie NB, qui disent clairement que le
premier ministre est intervenu auprès des dirigeants d’Énergie NB pour qu’Énergie NB choisisse
un réacteur nucléaire très spécifique. Quelles sont les compétences du premier ministre en matière
de technologie nucléaire?
020 11:20
Le premier ministre ne prouve-t-il pas que notre requête de demander au Comité permanent des
corporations de la Couronne d’évaluer complètement Énergie NB est justifiable? Les arguments et
les faits nouveaux que nous apportons ce matin, suite à l’information que nous avons des procès-
verbaux des réunions d’Énergie NB, ne démontrent-ils pas très clairement l’ingérence du
gouvernement quand ça fait son affaire et la distance qu’il veut prendre d’Énergie NB quand cela
ne fait pas son affaire? Le premier ministre va-t-il acquiescer à notre demande et faire une
vérification complète et totale d’Énergie NB par l’intermédiaire du Comité permanent des
corporations de la Couronne, comme nous le demandons?
Hon. S. Graham: I want to begin by saying that the opposition has a very, very short memory this
morning. I remember that the member for Riverview, the former Energy Critic—who should be
asking questions, but who is not today—stood in this House and criticized me personally for
traveling to France and meeting with the President of Areva. He stated that we should be supporting
Canadian technology. He stood in this Chamber and had the audacity to say: Why are we not
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
supporting Canadian technology? Today, we have this member standing up and criticizing us for
supporting Canadian technology.
The flip-flop and the audacity of what is happening here today are second to none. This is a private
sector investment led by the private sector. The feasibility study is under way. What needs to be
cleared up today is: What is the position of the opposition? Is it in favour of a second reactor, is it
in favour of allowing the private sector to build it, and is it in favour of Canadian technology?
Mr. Williams: On November 1, 2006, Doug Tyler was part of the Liberal transition team which was
in discussions with the proponent of a windmill project in New Brunswick. In January of 2007, that
same Doug Tyler became a consultant for the same proponent of a windmill project in New
Brunswick. This is a clear conflict of interest situation. The Premier knew of this conflict of interest
situation. How can New Brunswickers trust this government with such actions? In November of
2006, Doug Tyler was sitting at the negotiating table with the Liberal government transition team,
and, in January, he sat on the other side of the table, now negotiating for the proponent of the
project. How can this Premier accept and support such actions? Is this the government’s way of
taking care of Liberals who were riding on the campaign bus?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, I want to be very clear. We were approached by a private sector
company—a very well-established New Brunswick company, Atcon Construction—which was
working with other stakeholders to develop new wind power technology in this province. We took
that initiative to NB Power and said: Is there an opportunity for partnership? NB Power very clearly
said that a process needed to be followed, and that process then went forward.
Today, by soliciting bids for wind power technology, we will see, this December, the start of the
largest wind farm in Atlantic Canada, with TransAlta. We are seeing the Caribou Mines project
going forward, with Suez Energy. We are also seeing a major initiative being undertaken in
Shippagan through the cooperative there. It was a project that the previous government tried to move
forward for seven years. The current member from Shippagan and the former Conservative
government could not deliver on that. The member did not believe in the people in that region, but
this government does. We believe in the future of wind power, and that is why we have engaged
Yves Gagnon, from the Université de Moncton, to look at community wind power projects
throughout the province. That consultation is ongoing . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
021 11:25
Mr. Williams: It is clear that New Brunswick is losing trust in this government. Not only is the
Electricity Act broken, but this government is also.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
The question is plain and simple: Did Doug Tyler advise the Premier to instruct NB Power to
proceed, without a request for proposals, with a windmill project with New Brunswick wind energy
partners and Atcon Industrial Services?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, it is important that we meet with business leaders. I met with Robbie
Tozer from the Miramichi. He had a plan to create a new manufacturing facility, and that was
important for the north. We recognize today that, in the Miramichi, with the closure of certain
industries, we need to diversify the economic base.
Yea, I am proud to say that I meet with business leaders to look at every opportunity. I am also
proud to say that there are rules in place to make sure that the taxpayers are well served. In this
instance, the project could not be sole-sourced, so a request for proposals went forward for wind
power. That was tendered, and the lowest rate was achieved. We now see companies from outside
the province bringing this technology into the province, and that will not stop us from continuing
to invest in the steel centre and in the manufacturing Centre of Excellence on the Miramichi. This
New Brunswick-based company, today, is building the first bridge across the Mackenzie River, in
the Northwest Territories. That is how we do business in New Brunswick—by working with these
partners.
Mr. Fitch: What we see here is a government in damage control. There are two options that it can
take, as it has proven here today. One is that the government was totally incompetent and did not
know what the Energy Act stated. The second is that the government knew and tried to get around
the rules. That was why Atcon went ahead and invested a lot of money to start the project. This
government went to David Hay and the board of NB Power and said: We want you to put aside this
request for proposals and deal with this company. When it did that, either it did not know that any
new generation of wind power needed to go through an RFP, or it knew that it needed to go through
an RFP and asked the board to put it aside, to fulfill commitments that the government had made
to the private sector.
We know about RFPs. We know about the Act. We know that, in 2005, an RFP was put forward,
as the Act stipulates, and there was a successful bid. What the government is trying to portray is
once again different from the reality.
The government members take this as a joke, but will they qualify it today? Did you know what the
Act stated with respect to requests for proposals, Mr. Energy Minister? Did you know, or did you
just try to do this outside the rules?
Hon. S. Graham: It took the member a minute and 20 seconds to get that question out. I hope he
will afford me the same latitude.
I know the member is a little upset this morning that we are restoring the Petitcodiac River. I know
he is a little upset this morning that we are also working with New Brunswick businesses and
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
supporting New Brunswick businesses. I know he is upset that we are working with municipalities
throughout New Brunswick on developing wind power. In Albert County, we have the largest wind
farm. When the member was Minister of Energy, he could not deliver on that. This government
delivered.
The reality is that the member stood up in this Chamber and said that we needed to support Canadian
technology and New Brunswick-based companies. Today, his colleagues are standing up and saying:
Why did you support Canadian technology and New Brunswick-based companies? The flip-flip is
unbelievable. It just reinforces that this opposition has no direction. It cannot even have a policy
convention until a year from now. It comes down to a lack of leadership.
I can tell you today that there are challenges facing this province, but we are meeting those
challenges head-on. We are working with New Brunswick companies, and I am proud to say that
we are going to attain self-sufficiency in this province.
Mr. Fitch: What has been proven here today is the lack of integrity on the side of the government.
What we have proven here today is that this government either does not know the rules . . .
Mr. Speaker: Excuse me. You are bringing into question the integrity of individuals. I cannot allow
it. You will have to rephrase your question.
022 11:30
Mr. Fitch: I will remove the word “integrity”. The people have lost trust in this government,
because it says one thing and does another. Its members say one thing behind closed doors and say
another to the public. Will the Minister of Energy clarify this today? Did he not know the rules
under the energy Act requiring a request for proposals for new wind energy, or did he know the rules
and just decided to ignore and go around them to give his friends a contract? That is why it is in the
courts today. Please clarify. Did you not know the rules, or did you just want to go around them?
Hon. S. Graham: Clearly, we know that a number of projects are occurring in the Moncton region
which would not have occurred under the former government. There is a new $90-million casino.
The former Conservative government . . . What would David do? The former government could not
even come out with a responsible gaming strategy, which we did. There is $20 million invested in
the restoration of the Petitcodiac River. What would David do? We still do not know what the
position is on that side of the Chamber.
Clearly, today, we know that, by working with New Brunswick-based businesses, we are going to
source out every single opportunity. There are rules in place, and, today, we are following those
rules and letting wind power develop in New Brunswick. I am even more encouraged by the fact that
we are now reaching out to people like Dr. Yves Gagnon, from the Université de Moncton, in
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
developing community wind power projects. There is a potential for 2 500 MW of wind power to
be developed in this province. The former Minister of Energy could not construct . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Premier.
Mr. Alward: What we have today is a Premier and a Minister of Energy who are speaking out of
both sides of their mouths. At one time, they are saying that they are independent, and, the next, they
are saying that they are directly involved in decisions taken by NB Power. To the Premier, will he
confirm that statements that he and his minister made earlier this week concerning the arm’s-length
arrangement with NB Power are inaccurate? Clearly, the Premier and the minister have lost the trust
of this House and, most importantly, the people of New Brunswick.
Hon. S. Graham: I respect the Leader of the Opposition, but he has to put down the script and
actually listen to the debate that is occurring in this Chamber. What was said was very clear. We had
a business proposal, we took it to the board, the board looked at it, and it said no. The process
worked. It let 300 MW of wind power be tendered. Today, we have three companies from outside
New Brunswick investing in this project. Clearly, the arm’s-length process worked.
Mr. Alward: And they got sued. The people of New Brunswick have been sued over it. This
certainly has been a disappointing and frustrating week for New Brunswickers. While we are going
through the most difficult economic times since the Great Depression, this government has chosen
to further pad the wallets of the province’s high-paid civil servants instead of helping those who
need it the most. What is more, the minister and the Premier have not been forthcoming with the
people of New Brunswick in their role in the operation of NB Power. In doing so, they have both
shown contempt for every New Brunswicker. After everything that we have learned this week, I
think it is fair to say that New Brunswickers have lost confidence and trust in the minister
responsible for NB Power. Will the Premier do what is right, remove the Minister of Energy from
his portfolio, and replace him with someone who is capable of doing the job?
Hon. S. Graham: The member opposite asked what we would do. Today, New Brunswickers have
to ask the question: What would the Conservative Party do? What does the Conservative Party stand
for? The members opposite have yet to tell us what their position is on reforms to French immersion
in this province and how we are going to improve our education system. They have yet to tell us
what their position is on health care reforms. They stood up in this Chamber and passed a motion
saying that they wanted eight regional health authorities and more bureaucracy in New Brunswick.
023 11:35
Is that the position of the Leader of the Opposition this morning? Does he want more duplication
in health in New Brunswick? What is his position on the Petitcodiac River? One day, he is for it, and
the next, he is against it. It all depends on who is in the Chamber that day.
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ORAL QUESTIONS 9 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 12, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 12 décembre 2008
Clearly, we are making decisions on this side of the House. We are leading, and I can proudly say
that there is no team I would rather lead with than this team. The people who lost confidence in
government were the people of New Brunswick in 2006, when the Conservatives were defeated and
this government was elected.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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===========================================================================================================================================================================================
ORAL QUESTIONS 10 QUESTIONS ORALES
December 16, 2008 Not finalized / Non finalisé le 16 décembre 2008
Appointments
Mr. Alward: In June of 2007, this government committed to a new era of openness and
transparency by announcing that it would develop and implement a lobbyist registry for the province
and that it would pass a lobbyist registration Act by the end of 2008. There was no mention of this
item in the recent speech from the throne. There was no mention of it in the Premier’s speech two
week ago. In fact, we have not heard a thing from this government at all since it tabled the report.
018 14:10
It is clear that this government does not take the issue seriously. We are approaching the end of the
year, and the government is going to miss its own deadline. My question to the Premier is: When
is the legislation going to be tabled?
Hon. S. Graham: I am not sure that this is the most pressing issue across New Brunswick today,
but it is an important question, so I will answer it. The fact is that our government has looked at this
important registration tool. The costs, though, are substantial, and that is why I have reached out to
my Atlantic Canadian counterparts on the Council of Atlantic Premiers. I have written to each of
them. There was a recent CAP meeting where we publicly stated that we were looking at developing
a registry for the region as a whole, to share resources to try to bring down the costs and, at the same
time, to provide greater transparency.
Mr. Alward: Today, it is a way for the Premier to postpone any debate on this issue.
In March of 2007, while Derek Burney was still Chairman of NB Power, we questioned the
government on when it was planning to announce Francis McGuire, cochair of its election
campaign, as the new Chairman of NB Power. The Premier refused to answer the question, but,
within a few months, he had appointed Mr. McGuire to head NB Power. We all know what the story
has been ever since then. The Minister of Energy, the Minister of Finance, and the Premier have
approved six-figure bonuses and retroactive pay increases implemented by Mr. McGuire. My
question is for the Premier. Will he confirm today that he is planning to announce that the other
cochair of his 2006 campaign and current lobbyist, Doug Tyler, will be named within days as the
new Deputy Minister of Policy and Priorities?
Hon. S. Graham: I can tell you what has been postponed in this Chamber: a debate of any
substance. The Leader of the Opposition is not going to hold a policy convention for over a year.
This opposition has yet to take position on anything of substance, yet its members will stand up in
this Chamber and make accusations every single day. I can tell you that the prerogative to move
forward on the appointment of deputies is the Premier’s. There is a current vacancy, and I will be
filling it when I feel it is appropriate.
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Mr. Alward: It is only an accusation when the Premier confirms that it is not going to happen. Doug
Tyler chaired the Liberals’ transition team when they came to power, and he served as an interim
chief of staff for the Premier. He was also the person who lobbied this government and NB Power
on behalf of Atcon in the SkyPower affair. The government has talked about NB Power being
broken, but it was the current legislation that prevented the government from handing out a contract
that would have cost New Brunswickers an extra $150 million. Now, the government wants to put
the man who was paid to try to circumvent the Act in charge of revising the Act. Does that make a
lot of sense? Does the Premier think that putting Doug Tyler in this role shows good government?
Hon. S. Graham: I can say this very clearly today: Our government has moved boldly on a number
of energy projects, through the leadership of the Minister of Energy. Today, after seven years of
inactivity on wind power development in this province, the best that the former government could
come up with was a project that failed to materialize in Grand Manan. It made a big announcement,
and then, it did not do the work.
Today, in Lamèque-Shippagan-Miscou, through the local cooperative, a very important project is
actually being constructed. TransAlta, in Albert County, is developing the largest wind farm in
Atlantic Canada as we speak. Acciona, in the Bathurst region, is now developing a wind power
project as we speak. The criticism rings hollow on that side of the Chamber when those members
say that there is inaction on a number of energy fronts. We are making progress, and I am proud to
say that the team on this side of the Chamber is getting the job done.
Mr. Alward: This afternoon, the Premier is at his very best at spin, spin, spin, but he is not prepared
to answer a simple yes-or-no question.
019 14:15
New Brunswickers need to know whom Mr. Tyler has been lobbying for the past two years. We
need to be able to monitor those interests being advanced. Is it the people of New Brunswick whose
interests are being advanced or the people who have been represented by Mr. Tyler? Before the
government hires lobbyist Doug Tyler as the new Deputy Minister of the Policy and Priorities
Committee, will the Premier commit to making Mr. Tyler’s conflict of interest declaration public,
so that New Brunswickers can see Mr. Tyler’s client list and how often he lobbied the government
on their behalf?
Hon. S. Graham: Today, we see an opposition so void of substance that it is now falling into
personal attacks. Clearly, as I have stated before, the prerogative of appointing deputy ministers is
one that I have, as Premier, and I will fill the vacancy of the Policy and Priorities Deputy Minister
when I see fit.
I want to reiterate that the questions the opposition should be asking should concern the status of the
nurses’ contract negotiations as we move forward, the status of tax reform in New Brunswick, or
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the status of the economy and where we can move forward. However, the number one issue for the
Leader of the Opposition today is: Who is going to fill a deputy minister’s position that remains
vacant? This is the most pressing issue that the Leader of the Opposition has. It reflects the lack of
substance and depth on any policy issue that the opposition currently has.
Mr. Alward: My questions today go to the very rot that has set in with this government. They point
very much to the judgment process that is lacking in this government. The Deputy Minister of Policy
and Priorities is responsible for moving the government’s agenda forward. Mr. Tyler has been
representing clients and trying to influence the government’s agenda. The Premier should be doing
more to protect the interests of New Brunswickers. The government wanted to give out a contract
to the company represented by Mr. Tyler, and that contract would have cost an extra $150 million
more than necessary. The Electricity Act prevented the government from doing it. The government
has said that the Electricity Act is broken, it wants to reform it, and it wants lobbyist Doug Tyler to
do it. Again, does the Premier think that he is exercising good judgment in this decision? The more
the skin is peeled off the onion, the more it smells.
Hon. S. Graham: I am not sure who the scriptwriter for the Leader of the Opposition is this
afternoon, but to address the member from Charlotte, we were in his riding yesterday, making a very
important announcement on the twinning of Route 1. In fact, for seven years, that project sat vacant.
He could not deliver on it. In fact, the road contractors had to cut the trees on the road that Sheldon
Lee started when he was Minister of Transportation. The member from Charlotte could not deliver
on a number of projects on the health care front. I am glad to see, today, that this minister is
delivering in that region.
However, it comes back to the Leader of the Opposition. I would gladly debate a number of
substantial issues across the province, but this is the number one pressing issue today for the Leader
of the Opposition. Clearly, as Premier, I have the prerogative to appoint deputy ministers. It is an
issue that I take as being very important, because our deputy ministers play a critical role and
provide valuable services . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
NB Power
Mr. Northrup: We have taken a position on this matter.
What I am going to talk about in the next couple of minutes is very, very important to the people of
New Brunswick. On Friday afternoon, the Board of Directors of NB Power would not award
bonuses for the upcoming 2008-09 season. It is a great thing for New Brunswick. The good people
of New Brunswick expected the government to do the right thing and urge the board to rescind the
retroactive salary increases on the bonuses. Will the Minister of Energy go back to the board, and
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not recommend, but direct them to rescind the retroactive salaries secretly paid to the board
members?
020 14:20
Hon. Mr. Keir: I notice that the member for Kings East said “the upcoming season” as if it is a
game. I appreciate the fact that the opposition thinks it is a game, but we, on this side of the House,
do not. As everybody is aware, the Minister of Finance has written a letter to all Crown corporations
and all boards to urge them not to move forward with their bonus programs. As announced last
Friday, NB Power has agreed.
Mr. Northrup: We do not play games on this side of the House. It is funny how we sometimes
forget the things we say; however, the good people around this place can remind us of what we say.
I want to quote something that the Minister of Energy said last year. The exact date was April 12,
2007: “It is typical of the fearmongering of the opposition. I want to make it clear to all New
Brunswickers and to this House today that there will be no bonus program for NB Power.”
Hon. Mr. Keir: I am not sure that there was a question there, but that word was kept. There was no
bonus program for that given year. When I stood up in April 2007, the bonus program would have
been for the previous year, and no bonus program was put in place for that year. Let me be clear,
because the message seems to be getting lost: It was the previous government that put forward the
contractual requirement for those bonuses. It followed through with that contractual commitment
as well.
Mr. Northrup: The Minister of Energy is talking out of both sides of his mouth. He has no idea
what he is talking about when he talks about the bonus program. The executives and the nine little
elves all got their bonuses when they were supposed to, and they got them behind the back of the
Minister of Energy. This is my question for the Premier: Will he replace the Minister of Energy?
Hon. Mr. Keir: I agree that there is probably somebody in this House who does not understand, so
let me take the time to explain. In April, 2007, we stood up and said there would be no bonus
program for that year. That year would have been 2006-07. When the bonuses were paid in July
2008, it was for the years 2006-07, when that program was completed. Sorry, it was in 2007-08
when that program was completed. If the member for Kings East has trouble understanding that, he
can ask the question again and I will give him another answer again.
M. Volpé : Comme le dirait Robert Pichette : Le gouvernement libéral est composé d’amateurs sans
talent.
My question is for the Minister of Energy. We learned last week that the Minister of Energy was
unaware of bonuses and retroactive pay hikes that were approved, even though a copy of the minutes
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of NB Power were on his desk. Mr. Minister, are you ready to admit this afternoon that you failed
in your duty to New Brunswickers and failed in your position?
Hon. S. Graham: Due to the repetitive nature of these questions for the past week . . . The fact is
that the opposition members have no issues of policy to discuss in this Chamber because they have
yet to hold a policy convention; they have, once again, delayed in having one. I want to reiterate
what this minister has done to forward the energy policy and position New Brunswick as an energy
hub for the Eastern Seaboard. While the former minister would not leave New Brunswick to visit
stakeholders and to position New Brunswick as an energy hub, this minister has worked tirelessly
to show that we are open for business. The key indication is that, today, we have under construction
300 MW of wind power; a study is under way to harness tidal power; and there are two initiatives
dealing with alternative green energy sources. The former minister, the current member, could not
get one bit of that work done over seven years.
Mr. Volpé: The energy hub was announced in Saint John in 2002 when I was Minister of Energy.
Ma prochaine question est pour le ministre de l’Énergie. L’an dernier, le ministre de l’Énergie
n’était pas au courant que la Politique de non-débranchement du service d’électricité du premier
ministre Graham ne fonctionnait pas, que plus de 1 000 abonnés avaient été débranchés et qu’une
personne était morte de froid.
Monsieur le ministre, êtes-vous prêt à admettre cet après-midi que vous avez failli à votre tâche et
que vous avez failli aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick?
021 14:25
Hon. Mr. Keir: I thank the member opposite for the question. The fact of the matter is that the no-
disconnect policy has been working. Last year, the number of no-disconnects in the province
between November 1 and March 31 was just over 600. In the last year of the previous government,
the number of no-disconnects between November 1 and March 31 was over 1 150.
M. Volpé : Le ministre ne semble pas comprendre le terme « débranchement ». Son premier ministre
avait dit : « aucun débranchement ». Je vais laisser aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick la définition.
The minister was not aware that the Electricity Act required a call for proposals for any new
generation of power, and he led a private company to invest over $100 000 in a project that NB
Power told the company it could not do without a request for proposals. Mr. Minister, are you ready
to admit this afternoon that you failed that company? You failed in your duty. As a minister, you
failed New Brunswickers. For all those reasons, the minister has no choice but to leave his seat to
somebody else who can bring back trust within the department, and also the trust of New
Brunswickers.
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Hon. S. Graham: I answered that question on Friday. Clearly, an economic opportunity was
presented to the government. It involved the manufacture of wind power components on the
Miramichi. Our government took that proposal to NB Power. The board evaluated it, through due
process, and said: Under the existing legislation, here is what needs to be undertaken. A request for
proposals needs to be issues. That process was followed. Today, we have three
companies—TransAlta, Acciona, and Suez—doing business in the province. Our government will
make no apologies today for helping the people of the Miramichi to overcome the trials and
tribulations of seeing various pulp and paper mills close in that region. If we can diversify the
economic base in that region, we will leave no stone unturned. The best the opposition can do is to
criticize. It has yet to provide one concrete idea on how to help the people of the Miramichi.
Health Care System
Mrs. Blaney: Does the Minister of Health feel confident that the newly aligned and centralized
system of health care delivery has the capacity to deal adequately with the hiring of health care
professionals?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: In a recent inquiry, Mr. Justice Creaghan gave great accolades to the
government with regard to the new structure being more conducive to safety, and it is. Also, the
system of health, in the past two years, has undergone some very substantial changes—some good
changes. We have the second highest nurse-to-population ratio among the Canadian provinces, and
we have the second highest ratio of doctors to population. That is very good work.
Mrs. Blaney: Is the minister aware that four intensive care beds, or 25% of the beds at the intensive
care unit of the Saint John Regional Hospital, have been closed because there are not enough nurses?
Apparently, the positions have been unfilled, and there are many such positions that have been
unfilled for months. The central office has neglected to fill them. Is the minister aware of that?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: The current regional health authorities, like the former ones, hire all the nurses
and physicians that are required. There were about 225 or 230 vacancies identified when we came
to power two years ago with regard to nurses, and we have 140 net new nurses in the past two years.
Mrs. Blaney: The minister has become very good at deflecting, deferring, and taking no
responsibility. As I recall, the minister himself was in charge until September. These positions have
been unfilled for months.
022 14:30
Is the minister aware that operating rooms are underutilized, because there is insufficient staff to run
them? By insufficient staff, I mean nurses in particular. Is the minister aware that a lot of these
operating rooms are going completely underutilized, because there is insufficient staff? People have
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not been hired, and positions have gone unfilled. It is not just in the ORs or in intensive care,
although these are two areas of critical need. Is the minister aware?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: I am fully aware of the implications of the Sullivan report. As indicated by
Justice Creaghan, the integration of the health care system as we brought in with the restructuring
allows many more opportunities, one of which is with regard to real-time wait time for provincial
institutions. That will be up and running by the fall of 2009. We also have, in our health care plan,
respect for the scope of practice of nurses so that they are able to practice in the field in which they
are trained. That means that we will bring in midwives, which will take some of the load. We have
pharmacists who are now prescribing. We have also brought in other health care individuals who
provide better opportunities for nurses in the field. Also, we have a quality lifestyle work style
committee that has been formed, pursuant to the health plan. With regard to nurses, we have also
undertaken that we will have a fourth-year loan forgiveness program in place by the end of the
mandate, so we have done very well.
Mr. Holder: Now that the Minister of Health has been brought up to speed on the fact that there is
significant strain on the OR in Saint John, I am wondering if he can tell New Brunswickers how
many heart patients are on an elective surgery list, as opposed to an urgent list.
Hon. Mr. Murphy: I will certainly take that under advisement. The heart program in Saint John is
one of the best in the world. It does outstanding work. Saint John has undergone a lot of changes
with regard to health care in the last two years. We have a medical education program that will be
up and running. A medical education building is being put in place. We have extended the hours at
St. Joseph’s Hospital. We have an ER that is being expanded, for over $30 million. We also have
a specialty training program in internal medicine, and there will be more announcements in January.
Mr. Holder: I hope the minister can get back to the House with some specific numbers, because the
fact of the matter is that a growing number of New Brunswickers are on that elective surgery list,
heart patients. Can the minister confirm today that, once patients have a surgery date, they are taken
off the wait list? It is our understanding that they are.
Hon. Mr. Murphy: The reason that we have regional health authorities in place with very qualified
CEOs and administration and a very capable and dedicated medical staff at the New Brunswick
Heart Centre is to ensure that the proper methodology is used. I trust that they are using the proper
methods to ensure that the patients are brought forward as they should be, when it is medically
necessary, to ensure that their procedure is done.
Mr. Holder: This is another smoke-and-mirrors job by this government. The fact is that they say
that people are taken off the waiting list when they get that surgery date, just to bring the wait times
down. Can the minister confirm that this is the case in New Brunswick today?
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Hon. Mr. Murphy: I do not know if the member opposite is alleging any wrongdoing at the New
Brunswick Heart Centre. I have always been of the belief that they are very dedicated physicians
and administrators of the heart program. It is one of the best in the world. It is certainly among the
very best in Canada. I think it is somewhat disheartening to hear the member from Saint John blast
the New Brunswick heart program, because it is very, very good.
Appointments
Mr. Alward: This afternoon, we are very concerned that we heard the Premier downplay the
importance of good judgment and ethics in decisions about hiring the highest level of staff within
this government. We have a Premier who has belittled the types of questions that are being asked
today, when, in reality, they go to the heart of what this government is all about.
023 14:35
My question for the Premier is this: Will he confirm today that he is about to hire Doug Tyler as
Deputy Minister of the Policy and Priorities Committee for the province of New Brunswick?
Hon. S. Graham: Maybe the Leader of the Opposition should return to his script. This is the same
question that he asked at the very start of question period. I very clearly said that, as Premier, I am
given the responsibility of naming deputy ministers in key, critical positions to move the
government’s agenda forward. It is no different from the past Premier, and it will be no different
from the next Premier. These are important positions that need to be filled. The Prime Minister also
carries such responsibilities. I know that, right now, he is looking at naming a certain number of
Senate seats that are vacant in Ottawa. When you are given the responsibility of leading the
province, you make the best judgment possible. I am proud of our stable of deputy ministers in New
Brunswick today. These deputy ministers are reforming health care, education, postsecondary
education, and our taxation system. Where the former government failed to make any substantive
changes over the seven years of its mandate, we have accomplished more in our first two years than
it did in its seven years.
Mr. Alward: Let’s be very clear. This afternoon, the Premier said that he, along with Mr. Tyler,
lobbied to have a company be able to circumvent the Electricity Act of New Brunswick to see
economic development take place in the Miramichi. Certainly, all members here want to see
economic development take place in the Miramichi, but that is not the question. The Premier is
refusing to answer the question of whether he is going to announce Mr. Tyler as the next Deputy
Minister of Policy and Priorities. Can the Premier confirm today that, when he does . . .
(Interjections.)
Mr. Alward: This is very serious. When the Premier does announce Mr. Tyler as the Deputy
Minister of Policy and Priorities, will he make a commitment that he will make public the conflict
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of interest documentation that will show Mr. Tyler’s client list and show the lobbying that he has
been doing?
Hon. S. Graham: I fail to see the logic of the Leader of the Opposition. I will use a prime example.
Today, our forest industry is going through some major, major challenges. To address this, we have
a deputy minister, Tom Reid, working in the Department of Natural Resources, whom we promoted.
However, we went to the private sector and hired the services of Paul Orser, who worked for UPM-
Kymmene and a number of other stakeholder groups in the Miramichi region. This individual
worked in the private sector but made a decision to work for government now. The Leader of the
Opposition is saying today that anyone who works in the private sector cannot work for government.
I am clearly stating today that, when we have the opportunity to recruit the best people and to bring
forward an agenda of change and transformation for this province, the best that the Leader of the
Opposition can offer is to delay his policy convention by six months and to attack private citizens
in this province.
Mr. Alward: The Premier can do all he wants to do to try to divert from the real issue here today.
Very clearly, the Premier has a problem with poor judgment. Very clearly, we are showing that there
is a question of ethics. Very clearly, we are showing that there is a question, at the very least, of the
perception of conflict of interest. Is the Premier prepared to table, publicly, documentation on Mr.
Tyler’s client list and the work that he has done, lobbying various departments and agencies in the
province of New Brunswick?
Hon. S. Graham: Again, the decision has not been made. Today, the Leader of the Opposition is
speaking hypothetically. What about this in the future? What about that in the future? The Leader
of the Opposition should be fixated on the questions and the challenges of the day.
I will repeat this. We are continually looking to recruit the best people. We recruited Jim Hughes
from Quebec. He is a leading expert on social development policy and has worked with a number
of organizations across the country.
024 14:40
Is the Leader of the Opposition saying today that we should not be recruiting individuals of this
calibre? He is indeed calling into question the judgment of the Premier to go out and hire the best
individuals to serve New Brunswick. Shame on the Leader of the Opposition. There are people who
want to serve this province, and he is saying that they should not do so.
Mr. Speaker: The time for question period is now over.
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Budget
Mr. Alward: Let’s look at the difference between the two sides of the House. Governing is not a
joke. There is a big difference between the two sides of the House today.
Six weeks ago, I sent a letter to the Premier, offering to work with him and with the Finance
Minister as they deal with the current fiscal challenges that New Brunswick faces, along with next
year’s budget. What did the Premier do? He blew us off. He said he was not interested.
This week, the federal Minister of Finance sat down with opposition parties as they developed this
year’s budget. What did the opposition parties say? They said that it was responsible and that it was
an excellent process. My question for the Premier today is this: Is he prepared to rescind his last
decision and accept our offer to work with him as his government develops a budget to deal with
the financial challenges we have now?
Hon. S. Graham: As we stated at the start of this session, there are challenges on the horizon. New
Brunswick is not immune to global economic conditions. In fact, today, we have seen the United
States federal treasury take extraordinary measures to help to stimulate that economy, by dropping
interest rates to 0%. We are seeing major retailers discounting their prices prior to Christmas; there
are a number of sales.
That is why our Minister of Finance has provided a true and accurate update of the province’s
finances. Other provinces have not done so. On top of that, we have been realistic in our growth
expectations for this year. We have downgraded the growth from 1.8% to 1.0%. We have also
revised our forecast for next year to show 0% growth in the province and a potential contraction in
the New Brunswick economy. This is the first time in decades that we have seen a potential
contraction in our economy.
Because of this, we have outlined a comprehensive four-point action plan. In that plan, we talked
about the importance of infrastructure investment and tax reform.
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Mr. Alward: It is very clear this morning that the Premier cannot answer a yes-or-no question. It
is very clear this morning that the Premier is not prepared to show a different type of leadership,
working cooperatively to find solutions for New Brunswickers.
This government has no credibility when it comes to taxation. This government cut the HST rebate
for New Brunswickers. The first thing that this government did when it came to government was
to break its promise. The Premier broke his promise by increasing personal income tax, by
increasing small business tax, by increasing corporate tax. Today, I am asking the Premier: Why is
he standing alone, blowing in the wind, when every other jurisdiction is looking at a reduction in
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consumption taxes? He is looking at increasing consumption taxes. He is hurting our most
vulnerable, our low income earners, our low-income seniors, and our small businesses.
Hon. S. Graham: New Brunswickers are looking for a different kind of leadership. They are
looking for leadership from a government that actually makes decisions and takes action. That was
why they elected this government in 2006.
It is important to note the history of the previous Conservative government. In our first budget, we
stood up and made strategic decisions. I remember one such decision—investing in moose fencing.
The Leader of the Opposition at the time, then the Finance Critic . . . I am not sure, maybe he is
Finance Critic today, because they cannot determine who is Finance Critic on that side of the House.
The point is, he stood up and said that they would not have taken that initiative as a government.
They would not have invested in moose fencing. They cannot stand up and applaud those directions,
then criticize them in this House.
It is the same today with the record investments in infrastructure—$1.2 billion. The opposition
members stand up and say that the debt of the province is going to increase, and they criticize that
decision. The fact is, when you build infrastructure, it is like building a home. You have to take out
a mortgage and pay it down over a set period of time. We have been up-front with New
Brunswickers. Yes, we are going to invest in infrastructure. Yes, it means an increase in the debt of
the province, but at the same time . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
022 11:30
Tax Reform
Mr. Alward: Up-front with New Brunswickers—breaking their commitments and breaking their
promises . . . That is not what being up-front is about. Raising taxes is not what this government is
mandated to do. It did not run on that mandate in any way. This government said that it would be
about transparency. This government said that it would be about accountability. This government
said that it would be about openness. It is just the opposite.
The sham of a plan that the Minister of Finance brought forward today does nothing for the lowest-
income earners in New Brunswick. It does nothing for small business in New Brunswick. What does
it do? It helps big business and high-income earners. My question is for the Premier. Does he
support that plan?
Hon. S. Graham: After a week of questions that were personal, I welcome the debate on tax reform
in New Brunswick today, because these are the questions that the Leader of the Opposition should
have asked weeks ago. Clearly, today, New Brunswick is at a crossroads. We have a decision to
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make in this Chamber for the students in the gallery and New Brunswickers across this province.
Do we want to continue with the status quo? Do we want to continue to see the economy of New
Brunswick contract? Do we want to see our young people continue to leave this province? Or, do
we want to put in place a tax regime structure that is going to encourage these students in the gallery
today to remain in this province to work? It is going to bring more New Brunswickers back home.
It is going to put more money into the pockets of New Brunswickers, and they will have a decision
on where to spend and to invest it. The plan that we have brought forward, in broad strokes, sets out
those initiatives, and I support that plan one hundred percent.
Mr. Fitch: I want to thank the member for Madawaska-les-Lacs for responding to the papers that
were received today, because he was at every one of those meetings. He heard what the people said.
What they said is not what you delivered today. The one thing that is concrete today is that there will
not be a carbon tax. Wow, you learned something from Stéphane Dion, who found out the hard way
that carbon taxes are not very popular. The other thing that you could have done here today is say
that there would not be an increase in the HST, because that received little support too. While
jurisdictions like Great Britain are reducing the value-added tax by 2% to stimulate the economy,
you are leaving us in a gray area. Why not give the economy the information that it is looking for,
the stimulus that it is looking for? Why not tell us today that you will not hurt the economy by
increasing the HST?
Hon. S. Graham: The critic must be a little insecure this morning, spending the first 20 seconds of
his response explaining that he is the Finance Critic. Clearly, today, we have important decisions
to make, and our government has reached out to work with the government of Canada. Today, the
Prime Minister is saying that provinces should harmonize their sales taxes. Frank McKenna brought
forward that transformational reform in this province, while many other provinces have still not been
able to deliver that. The government of Canada also said that we should eliminate our corporate
capital tax. This year, our government is eliminating corporate capital tax in New Brunswick. The
Prime Minister is also saying today that we should reduce our corporate income tax to 10 points.
Today, the Minister of Finance is saying that we are going to meet that challenge. We are even going
to go into single digits. We are going to be more competitive than Nova Scotia, Prince Edward
Island, and many other provinces across this country.
Mr. Fitch: I think the Premier is the one who is insecure today, because he has not taken a question
for the last three weeks almost. He has taken one or two every now and again. However, he has an
audience here today, so he will be up on every question, I am sure.
The final report from the Select Committee on Tax Review is something that the Premier has talked
about for weeks, but this report is like a cappuccino coffee with too much froth. You think you are
getting something strong, but all you are getting is hot air and bubbles. Can the Premier tell us today
if he is going to hurt the economy by increasing the HST?
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023 11:35
Obviously, there is going to be a shrinkage in that revenue. If the members opposite continue with
this spending spree as they have done in the past couple of years, there will be a significant deficit.
We have the projections for 2008-09. What is the deficit? Obviously, you have done the projections.
What is the deficit that you are projecting for 2009-10?
Hon. S. Graham: The opposition complains when I answer questions and complains when I do not
answer questions. The reality is that, today, we have launched an important discussion on tax reform
for all New Brunswickers. The onus of this tax reform is to build an economy in New Brunswick
where we can keep our young people in the province. If we remain on the path we are on today . . .
We have an aging workforce and fewer tax filers, and we will have shrinking revenue to pay for the
social programs that New Brunswickers hold near and dear to their hearts. That is why we have
brought out a plan. As a government, we are committed to tax reform. We are lowering the corporate
income tax. We are lowering personal income taxes. We are going to find a mechanism to put more
money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers.
I want to be very clear today. It is not the preferred option of government to increase the HST. That
is why, when we go through the budget exercise, we are going to look internally for efficiencies
within the system and plow that back into tax reform as part of our comprehensive plan to stimulate
the economy of New Brunswick.
Mr. Fitch: The only complaint we have about the Premier is that, whenever he gets up to answer
a question, he does not answer the question that is posed. That is unfortunate, because the people
need to know. People need to know why you raised the taxes on small businesses when you took
power. You raised personal income tax when you took power. You raised the tax for medium-sized
businesses, and, today, in your report, you are talking about reducing the corporate portion for large
businesses. Why, as you continue on this spending spree, do you continue to ask the low-income
earners, the poor, and the small and medium-sized businesses to finance your spending spree? Why
do you continue to ask the middle-class citizens to look after the rich and the friends of the Liberal
Party?
Hon. S. Graham: Our government is committing, today, to position New Brunswick as an energy
hub in North America. We have seen the benefits in Alberta, through the development of its energy
hub and its tax reform, in terms of the growth of its economy. The fact is that many New
Brunswickers are now paying their taxes in Alberta, even though they live in New Brunswick. The
fact is that, through the competitive tax regime, they have made a strategic decision to call Alberta
home. The tax reforms that we are putting forward today will allow those New Brunswickers to
return home. The pipe fitters, welders, and carpenters are not the rich people of New Brunswick.
They are the working individuals who are going to build this province. The reforms that we are
putting forward are going to bring them back home to New Brunswick.
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Mr. Volpé: The Premier said that businesses are filing in Alberta. Our rate for small business was
1.5%. Alberta was 3%. Now we are at 5%. I am convinced that they are now, but they were not
before.
Property Tax
My question this morning is for the Minister of Finance. In the document he tabled this morning,
there is no mention of property tax. It was part of the report. It is not in there. The intent was to
increase the rate in the local service districts in New Brunswick by 65¢. I know that the Finn report
that was supposed to be tabled earlier this year and which the municipalities have been waiting
for . . . Maybe Santa Claus will bring it, but it was supposed to be tabled this fall. It has not been
tabled yet. I am asking the minister this morning: How much money will the 65¢ increase for the
LSDs bring to government? It will not go to the local governments; it will go back to government.
For LSDs and businesses in LSDs, the money goes back to government. How much money does that
represent for the government?
Hon. V. Boudreau: I am pleased to get a question from one of my many critics over there. They
cannot seem to make up their minds about exactly who the critic is. Obviously, the member for
Madawaska-les-Lacs was not listening to my statement, because I did talk about property tax. I did
say that government was going to require more time to go through the various recommendations that
were made on property tax. The Finn report will be coming out shortly, and it will have additional
recommendations in terms of property tax.
024 11:40
As well, as I mentioned in the statement, we want to put in a place a mechanism that is open and
transparent. At the end of the day, there is just one taxpayer. Whether it is municipal, provincial, or
federal taxes that are being paid, there is one taxpayer. That is whom our interest is in. That is who
we want to make sure has more money in his or her pocket at the end of this tax reform. We will be
providing further details in the months to come.
Mr. Volpé: We do agree there is only one taxpayer, who has been hit very hard by that government.
Il y a deux ans de cela, le Nouveau-Brunswick a été la seule province à augmenter les taxes et les
impôts. Quelle a été le résultat de cette décision? C’est notre province qui a eu la plus grande
augmentation en pourcentage du taux de chômage au Canada.
Cette année, le premier ministre veut encore augmenter la charge financière imposée aux gens du
Nouveau-Brunswick. On peut parler des autres provinces. Selon les informations qu’on reçoit dans
les journaux, la façon la plus rapide d’activer l’économie en cas de crise, c’est de réduire les impôts
sur le revenu des particuliers pour que ceux-ci réinvestisse leur argent dans l’économie locale. Cela
donne même des résultats plus rapidement que les investissements dans les infrastructures.
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Again, it is the only jurisdiction in the country. They are going the other way.
My question will be for the Premier. Why are you not listening to your own fiscal document that
says that people and businesses move to where the fiscal base is the best? We were there a few years
ago. You went back. Are you ready this morning to commit to bringing it back to at least where we
were in 2006? New Brunswickers were paying . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Hon. S. Graham: Let’s be very clear. Our government is committed to tax reform, and we are
committed to meeting the challenge of the government of Canada to lower our corporate income tax
rate. The government has set out a challenge of 10 points. We are going to hit single digits in New
Brunswick.
As well, we are committed to simplifying the tax code for personal income tax in the province. We
are committed to putting more money back into the pockets of New Brunswickers and, at the same
time, creating an environment so that young New Brunswickers can return home and so that young
New Brunswickers can stay home—the children and grandchildren of parents in this province. The
parents of this province want their sons and daughters to remain in this province, and we are
committed to tax reform that not only stimulates the economy but also keeps those New
Brunswickers here.
Mr. Volpé: This morning, the Premier seems to be ready to answer questions. He spoke to an
audience earlier. Living within their means is what New Brunswickers are doing. When the
economy goes down, they have to reduce their expenses. They cannot borrow on the future
generation. That is what the Premier is doing. Earlier today, we talked to the students who were
here. They will be the ones paying the debts of this government.
The Premier has been increasing the debt by $1 million per day since he has been in government,
and that is not enough. The Minister of Finance came down last week and said: I need $263 million
more than was approved for my budget last spring. Why? An increase in fuel. People who have been
fueling their vehicles around this province know that the price has been going down, not up. The
time of the year that we need it is now, for heating our buildings and for the school buses and plows
that are on the road. The price is going down, and last week, he said that he needed to increase his
budget. Can they explain it? Can the minister or the Premier explain why they need more money to
pay for fuel when it is going down?
Hon. S. Graham: This, again, signals the inaccuracies of the opposition members, because they are
standing and saying that they do not want the debt to go up. That means they are against the
community college in Edmundston that is being built and the community college in Saint John that
is being built, as well as the reforms to the community colleges in Bathurst and in Moncton. It also
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means they are against the roads that are being built in this province that had been abdicated by their
government for more than seven years.
This government today is building roads at a record rate to put New Brunswickers to work. We are
investing in our infrastructure. We are investing in the future of our province, in the children and
in the young students who want to remain here. The tax reforms that we are putting in place and the
reductions in personal income tax are going to benefit significantly small businesses. The majority
of small business owners today file under personal income tax reductions, and those reductions are
going to be much bigger under our government than the former government ever dreamed.
025 11:45
Health Care System
Mrs. Blaney: We have known for a while that there is a definite problem in the Department of
Health, and the problem is the minister himself. The Premier has been reluctant to deal with issues
relating to the Department of Health, and his reluctance means that our province has a leadership
void on the health file.
The minister has lost private health information. He has created a language crisis in health care
administration and delivery. The minister has consistently put his own personal image ahead of
quality health care through shameless self-promotion. My question for the Premier is this: What is
the Premier going to do to ensure that the minister stops putting his own agenda ahead of provincial
health care issues?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: The member opposite has raised some questions with regard to the trauma
system. The trauma system committee has Dr. Dubinsky, the author of reports on it, as well as Dr.
Girotti, another specialist from Ontario. There are vice-presidents, CEOs, and various health
professionals. They make the decision as to who the coordinator is.
The fine lines of the trauma system development were with Dr. Dubinsky when the report came out.
He indicated that two to three years would be adequate time to set up the trauma system that is being
set up, and it is on time. That takes us into the fall of 2009-10. There will be money in place in the
spring and money in the following budget. I would suggest that the member opposite contact Dr.
Furlong, one of her former colleagues, who says that things are proceeding as they should.
Mrs. Blaney: I think the minister lives in a bubble. This is such a clear example of the leadership
void that I was talking about. The people need to hear from the Premier on this file, and he keeps
deferring to his minister, who is causing the problem. There is major frustration within the system;
it is actually palpable. There is an incredible level of mistrust between the minister and the medical
community. We have nurses who voted overwhelmingly to strike—a sign of mistrust and frustration.
We have doctors who fear for their jobs. We have waiting lists that do not reflect the real numbers
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of people waiting. We have a provincial trauma system that has been continually delayed by this
minister. Worst of all, this minister has created a language crisis such as we have not seen in a
generation.
You cannot lead with your head in the sand. My question to the Premier is this: What is your plan
of action to build bridges to health care professionals?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: We have a very high percentage of New Brunswickers who are very satisfied
with the quality of service in their official language, in all hospitals. I would suggest that the
member opposite read the New Brunswick reports. There have been many constitutional challenges,
to this government and to previous governments, over the course of the past 20 years. There is a
great dialogue that goes on between the linguistic communities, and it has worked well. It has
evolved to this point in time.
Since 2006, we have created a uniform ambulance system; that had not been done in seven years.
We have a trauma system that is being built. We have brought in more doctors than have been
brought in in well over 10 years; we have 110 net new doctors. Also, we have the second highest
ratio of nurses to population of all the Canadian provinces. We have the second highest ratio of
physicians to population in Canada. Also, as you know, we have commenced with pharmacists
prescribing. We have brought up the question of midwives. We have brought oncology to northern
New Brunswick. We have brought dialysis to northern New Brunswick. We have brought a medical
education building and program to Saint John, and there has been an extension of the ER there. We
have brought in far more than the previous government ever did.
Mrs. Blaney: Yesterday, we witnessed a Premier who likes to avoid dealing with conflicts. To avoid
talking about an ethical issue related to his government, he suggested that we talk about the
province’s deficit. That is desperation. The Premier would rather talk about the fact that he has taken
our province into a deficit than deal with questions of ethics and judgment.
Leadership has to be more than talking about doing things. It means actually having to make tough
decisions related to your own leadership. The Premier has a responsibility to be engaged in files that
are of great concern to New Brunswickers. Again, how is the Premier going to repair the damage
caused by his Minister of Health on health care issues? How is he going to ensure that it will not get
any worse?
026 11:50
Hon. S. Graham: I would like to remind the member opposite that she was a member of Cabinet
in a Conservative government which ran two back-to-back Conservative deficits in this province in
2002-03 and 2003-04.
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It is imperative that, when you are faced with challenges, you deal with them. While the former
Conservative government promised medical schools in New Brunswick, this government is actually
delivering them today. While the former Conservative government promised a single ambulance
provider in New Brunswick, it is this government that is delivering on that today. While the former
government promised to put midwives into the system, it never brought forward legislation. This
government is delivering on that today. Finally, I am so proud that our province is only the second
in Canada to give pharmacists the ability to prescribe certain medications. We are taking a
leadership role, and this government is delivering those reforms to the health care system.
Potatoes
Mr. MacDonald: My questions are for the Minister of Agriculture and Aquaculture today. As the
minister will know, the northwest region of this province received more than 19 inches of rain from
June to September of this year. Potatoes were left in the ground, and those dug, in some cases, are
now breaking down in storage. Prince Edward Island announced a multimillion-dollar plan to help
support potato and grain growers. My question for the minister today is: Does this province plan to
follow suit?
L’hon. M. Ouellette : Merci pour la question. D’abord, je dois dire que la situation est certainement
sérieuse pour les producteurs de pommes de terre de la province. Cette année n’a pas été facile, bien
que, selon des régions, il y a des producteurs qui ont très bien réussi. Il faut dire qu’il y a trois
différentes périodes dans la production de pommes de terre. Il y a la période de semence, et au cours
de la période où ce produit a été semé, c’est sûr et certain que cela n’a pas été facile pour certaines
régions. Les pluies torrentielles ont causé beaucoup de dégât, mais, par contre, il faut dire que nous
avons des programmes en place et ils fonctionnent très bien. Des personnes du ministère étaient sur
les lieux et ont pris l’information nécessaire et celle-ci a été envoyée. Déjà beaucoup de ces
personnes ont déjà été compensées pour les problèmes arrivées pendant le semence.
Mr. MacDonald: We cannot start this process in March or April when the farmers are preparing
to plant or deciding if they are going to put in a crop at all. New Brunswick received more rain than
Prince Edward Island this year. That is a fact. The potatoes are breaking down in storage. That is
a fact. Our potato growers need action from this government. Can the minister give us a timeline for
announcing a package?
L’hon. M. Ouellette : Encore une fois, je dois réitérer que les personnes concernées et mon
ministère s’occupent du problème qui existe dans la province. Mais avant d’en arriver à savoir s’il
y aura des compensations, il faut d’abord s’assurer qu’il y a eu une évaluation de la situation.
Comme je l’ai dit tout à l’heure, il y a la période d’ensemencement qui est très importante et il y a
aussi la période des récoltes qui est également très importante et la période d’entreposage. Alors,
il faut absolument qu’il y ait en place une évaluation pour ces différentes périodes pour s’assurer
à quel point il y a du dommage pour les producteurs. Suite à cela, il y a des programmes en place
comme l’assurance-récolte, et si le problème devient trop onéreux et qu’il est déclaré désastreux,
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à ce moment-là, il y a un autre programme qui peut venir en place, mais à la demande de l’Agence
de la pomme de terre qui nous demande de faire un appel auprès du gouvernement fédéral. À ce
moment-là...
Le président : Monsieur le ministre, le temps.
027 11:55
M. Mockler : C’est aberrant d’entendre les réponses du ministre de l’Agriculture et de
l’Aquaculture ce matin. Nous n’affrontons pas une crise mais plutôt un désastre, et c’est lamentable.
Depuis l’arrivée au pouvoir du ministre de l’Agriculture et de l’Aquaculture, son attitude vis-à-vis
de l’agriculture est déplorable. Il fait la sourde oreille à nos revendications lorsque nous affrontons
une telle crise économique. Ma question est simple, et les gens de chez nous et de chez lui attendent
une réponse. Le ministre de l’Agriculture et de l’Aquaculture mettra-t-il en place un programme
pour venir en aide financièrement aux agriculteurs et aux agricultrices de l’industrie de la pomme
de terre et de l’industrie céréalière immédiatement, sous forme de prêts garantis et de fonds de
roulement? On veut une réponse, Monsieur le ministre. Il est temps de vous réveiller et de passer
à l’action.
L’hon. M. Ouellette : Le député de Restigouche-la-Vallée devrait savoir que, s’il y a un
gouvernement qui a nuit à l’agriculture dans la province du Nouveau-Brunswick, c’est bien le
gouvernement précédent. On n’a qu’à penser à l’année 2000, lorsque vous avez combiné le ministère
de l’Agriculture avec celui des Pêches et de l’Aquaculture. Vous avez complètement oublié le
ministère de l’Agriculture. Quand on est arrivé au pouvoir, en 2006, la première chose que l’on a
faite, c’est d’organiser un sommet pour justement avoir une consultation qui n’a jamais été vue dans
la province du Nouveau-Brunswick. Nous avons demandé à l’industrie de l’agriculture de collaborer
avec le gouvernement pour essayer de donner une vision à l’agriculture, une vision qui n’existait
pas par le passé. Alors, je crois que...
Le sénateur est vite à se lever. Je crois que notre ministère n’a pas de leçon à recevoir.
Le président : La période des questions est maintenant terminée.
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Reports
Mr. Alward: ‘Twas the week before Christmas, and what could the people of New Brunswick
expect from this government? They could expect a secret hiring of a lobbyist as Deputy Minister
of Policy and Priorities. They could expect a report to come before the Legislature, in the last days
before Christmas, that would see increased taxes for New Brunswickers. Today, they could expect
a report on local governance. The Premier obviously forgot to stand up and make a minister’s
statement on it.
My first question is simple. Over the past few weeks and months, there has been a report which has
been promised for months and which has certainly been shelved up to this point. My question to the
Premier is this: He has raised the expectations of communities for months. Will the Premier act on
the report immediately, or will it be shelved?
Hon. S. Graham: Clearly, our government has embarked upon a number of areas of
transformational change. We have seen it in the health care system. Today, pharmacists are
prescribing for the first time in this province; we are the second province in the country to have this.
We have seen important changes in postsecondary education. We have a new community college
in Edmundston, as well as better integration between our universities and our community colleges.
We have seen transformational change in our education system. We have physical education
specialists in the system, as well as investments our trades courses. We are also seeing important
increases in our literacy scores.
Also, yesterday, the Minister of Finance announced transformational change in our taxation system,
to bring more New Brunswickers back home.
The last area of change was local governance. Today, I want to thank Mr. Finn publicly for the
extensive work that he has undertaken over the past year. However, the world has changed
considerably since Mr. Finn began this work. That is why our government is accepting this report
while, at the same time, putting reforms to local government on hold. The top priority is the
economy, and that is what our government is going to do in the new year.
Mr. Alward: This is quite incredible today from a Premier who has talked about the positive
attributes and the transformational change that the report on local governance would bring. One
would assume that that transformational change would be positive for local communities. Very
clearly, today, we have a Premier who is saying that it will be shelved. We have a Premier who had
raised expectations among communities that positive attributes would be coming forward from this
report. The reality is that the impact of this report would be a downloading of services and a
downloading of costs to local communities. That is the real reason this is being shelved. Mr.
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Premier, what has changed? If this report was going to bring positive attributes originally, why are
you not prepared to bring it forward now?
Hon. S. Graham: I am not sure where the Leader of the Opposition has been for the past six
months, but the global economy has changed considerably over the past six months. Today, the
number one priority of this government is the economy. The Leader of the Opposition cannot even
hold a policy convention, because he shelved the date for which it was initially scheduled.
020 14:20
Today, I want to tell the Leader of the Opposition: Our government is focused, this winter, on
starting a number of key infrastructure projects that are going to put New Brunswickers to work. We
are committed to finding efficiencies within the budget process. This report is a comprehensive one
which undertakes a number of initiatives with respect to providing greater representation in our
province, as it deals with municipal governments, in a more efficient and effective manner. What
is clear today is that there was a price tag attached to this report. At this time of economic restraint
and of prioritizing the needs of New Brunswickers, we recognize that this report is an important
process that was undertaken, but our priority is the economy.
Mr. Alward: The Premier is not answering the questions. Clearly, this is a package on local
governance. The government had raised the expectations of the municipalities throughout the
province. A number of the members here were actually part of a government that forced
amalgamations on communities, such as in the Edmundston area, the Saint John area, and the
Miramichi area. My question to the Premier is very simple: Given the history of the Liberal Party
and its relationship with communities, with this report and the recommendations coming out of it,
are you going to force amalgamations on communities? How will you engage people in the process?
Hon. S. Graham: Maybe the Leader of the Opposition is not listening to the answer that I provided
to him this afternoon. Maybe he needs his script back. What we said was that this is an important,
comprehensive report. We recognize today that people want change at all levels of
government—local, provincial, and federal. Municipal governments are a key priority. The people
of this province value their local communities. Our government values the work of local
communities.
At the same time, the world has changed considerably since September. There is a cost to
implementing this report and the work that was undertaken. At a time of fiscal restraint, at a time
when our government’s key priority is putting New Brunswickers to work, giving New
Brunswickers an opportunity to get the best education system in this province and in this country
is our focus. The member opposite is making allegations, but he has not heard what we have said.
The report is on hold until we have the fiscal capability to move forward with transformation in local
government.
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M. Volpé : Le premier ministre vient de nous dire aujourd’hui que ce rapport rejoindra les autres
rapports sur la même tablette. C’est un premier ministre qui s’est levé à plusieurs reprises au cours
des deux dernières années et qui a promis mer et monde. Il a promis que tout serait basé... Ne vous
en occupez pas de la gouvernance, car un rapport s’en vient, et toutes les réponses y seront. Les gens
seront tous contents. Tout le monde sera content de la réforme fiscale. Avec Claudette Bradshaw,
tous les problèmes sociaux seront corrigés. Ces rapports se trouvent tous sur la même tablette. Il est
un premier ministre qui n’est pas capable de prendre une décision, sauf quand c’est le temps d’aider
ses amis. Il peut trouver des millions pour aider ses amis.
Ce matin, le premier ministre nous dit que cela coûtera trop cher. Quel serait le coût d’implanter ce
plan?
L’hon. S. Graham : Notre gouvernement s’est embarqué dans un programme de réformes
ambitieux : la réforme dans les soins de santé, dans l’éducation postsecondaire, dans le système
d’éducation et dans le système d’imposition. Aujourd’hui, nous avons reçu un rapport qui est bien
écrit par un expert, Jean-Guy Finn, au sujet de la gouvernance locale. Quand M. Finn a commencé
ce rapport, les priorités d’hier étaient certainement différentes de celles d’aujourd’hui. En raison de
la crise économique mondiale, aujourd’hui, notre gouvernement a un plan d’action clair pour
stimuler l’économie. Il créera aussi de l’emploi pour les gens du Nouveau-Brunswick qui ont perdu
leur emploi en Alberta et en Ontario et qui reviennent ici, au Nouveau-Brunswick. Aujourd’hui,
nous avons dit que, en raison de la situation économique, nos priorités sont en place. Notre priorité,
c’est l’économie.
021 14:25
M. Volpé : J’espère que les élèves qui sont ici vont se rendre compte du niveau de compétence de
notre premier ministre. Ce dernier nous parle d’une crise économique au Nouveau-Brunswick.
Cependant, la semaine dernière, le ministre des Finances s’est levé et nous a dit qu’il prévoyait que
les revenus seraient plus élevés que prévus. Oui, les revenus pour la province vont être plus élevés
que prévus ; pourtant, il dit qu’il y a un problème économique.
Le problème n’est pas dans les revenus mais dans les dépenses. Je vais poser ma question une autre
fois au premier ministre. Il nous dit qu’il ne peut pas implanter le plan du rapport Finn à cause du
coût. Étant donné qu’il dit que c’est trop élevé, il doit en connaître le coût. Par conséquent, j’ai une
question bien facile pour le premier ministre : Quel serait le coût d’implanter la réforme du rapport
Finn?
L’hon. S. Graham : Si on veut que ce rapport soit un succès, il faut le mettre en place totalement.
On ne peut pas diviser ce rapport et implanter une portion aujourd’hui et une autre portion dans
quelques années.
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M. Finn est très clair : on doit mettre en place ce rapport d’une façon totale pour qu’il soit un succès.
De voir les attaques personnelles aujourd’hui de ce député devant les élèves indique une chose :
lorsque ce député est frustré, il ne peut pas faire un débat propre. La seule chose qu’il peut faire,
c’est de m’attaquer. Je veux dire aujourd’hui que notre priorité, c’est de stimuler l’économie et de
prendre avantage pour mettre en place le plus gros budget de capital de toute l’histoire de notre
province. Après sept ans d’inaction en éducation postsecondaire à Edmundston, on va mettre en
place un nouveau collège communautaire, quelque chose que vous n’avez jamais fait.
M. Volpé : Le premier ministre nous a dit lui-même, et vous l’avez entendu, Monsieur le président,
qu’il ne peut pas implanter le rapport Finn à cause du coût trop élevé. Il me semble que ma question
est facile. Quel en serait le coût? S’il nous dit que le coût est trop élevé, c’est qu’il est au courant
combien cela va coûter. Quel en serait le coût? Pour les élèves, vous savez, c’est le même premier
ministre qui augmente la dette de la province de 1,2 million par jour. Il se fait des amis avec cela,
mais une fois de plus je vais lui poser la même question.
Maybe translation is a problem. What is the cost of implementing the Finn report? You said that the
cost was too high, and we cannot afford it. What is the cost?
Hon. S. Graham: The work that has been undertaken is an important process. The Department of
Local Government has received the report and is now doing a proper review of the report. It is our
understanding that, to incorporate this report . . . This report cannot be incorporated piecemeal. The
commissioner was very clear that, to see success, it needs to be implemented in its entirety. Today,
New Brunswickers do value the level of government they receive at the municipal level, but, at the
same time, they want efficient and modern services at an affordable price. It would take millions of
dollars to implement this report. At this point, we are very clear: With the budget process that we
are embarking upon, where every program and service is under review, our government is not going
to start new programs at this cost when we are trying to find efficiencies internally. I would
encourage the member opposite—who, yesterday, was Finance Critic, and, today, is Local
Government Critic—to read the report. We have yet to hear whether or not he endorses this report.
Property Tax
Mr. Betts: The Minister of Local Government said that property tax is not a problem, but, this
government, in two years, has done nothing with respect to property tax relief, especially for seniors.
For two years, the government has avoided making any decisions on governance, unconditional
grants, and taxation by hiding behind the Finn report. The government released the report on
taxation just before the summer, so there was no discussion on it. It is releasing this report just
before Christmas, so there is no debate or discussion on this. It is just like yesterday, when the
government allowed no discussion on the capital estimates. The government is doing a disservice
to New Brunswickers. They want a full debate and discussion on the issues. What does the
government have to hide by releasing this report again, at the last minute, right before Christmas,
to avoid proper debate, discussion, and scrutiny?
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022 14:30
Hon. S. Graham: Yesterday, when the Minister of Finance outlined the reforms to taxation, he
clearly indicated that this government is going to address the issue of property taxation. We have
indicated that when the Legislature returns this March, a budget will be tabled, and we will be
embarking on taxation reform. Taxation reform puts more money back for these individuals in the
gallery, to create opportunities for these students to return to New Brunswick or stay in New
Brunswick. Taxation reform that is going to move into single digits for corporations could put us
in a much better position that other jurisdictions in Canada. We are committed to taxation reform,
and that includes property taxation reform.
Mr. Betts: The government’s report on taxation said: We want to put more money in your pockets.
Actions speak louder than words, and, for the last few years, they have had their hands in our
pockets. They raised corporate tax to 13%, small business up to 5%, personal income tax . . . They
did not give us back the HST rebate. The $63 million we would have had certainly would have
helped New Brunswickers to the tune of roughly $1 100 per family. I would like the Premier to be
honest with New Brunswickers and lead by example. If you want tax reform, simply reverse all the
tax increases you have made in the last two years.
Hon. S. Graham: Again, this government is leading by action. When the members opposite stand
up, they are quick to say: Do everything we did. However, they are also quick to say: We embrace
everything you have done. I want to tell you today that investing in postsecondary education, a $160
million investment this year in capital infrastructure . . . This is an issue that sat dormant for seven
years. If the opposition members are quick to criticize this government’s actions, they also have to
be quick to realize that we are investing in the future of this province, and the future of this province
is in the gallery today. For seven years, in the community of Edmundston . . .
Durant sept années, la collectivité d’Edmundston a attendu une décision sur l’éducation
postsecondaire, et c’est notre gouvernement, un gouvernement libéral, qui a finalement fait un
investissement de 35 millions — le plus élevé de l’histoire — pour l’intégration du collège
communautaire et de l’université de Moncton, campus d’Edmundston.
Mr. Betts: Lowering taxes actually stimulates the economy. We proved that in seven years. The
opposition members on the taxation committee voted against the report because New Brunswickers
said no to raising the HST. People in Greater Moncton—Champlain Mall, Trinity shopping, and
Costco—depend on the retail sector for our economy. The Premier was negotiating with the Prime
Minister to increase the HST before this report was even out. Yesterday, the government hinted that
it might delay the increase in the HST to soften the blow before Christmas. In the paper, we read
about the rampant spending, the spending of $60 million on private institutions, money for Liberal
friends to write reports, and needless surveys. There is information about listening to people,
changing the logo, political financing, and political advertising. These are a waste of money. Now,
they are asking civil servants to pay for their spending.
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Will the Premier be honest with the people? Do the right thing and say, right here and right now, that
you will not raise the HST.
Hon. S. Graham: We are standing right here today having an important debate on taxation. We are
clearly committed to lowering corporate income tax in this province. We are clearly committed to
taxation reform, because it was a Liberal government that reformed taxation with the harmonization
of the sales tax. It is this Liberal government that is eliminating corporate capital tax in New
Brunswick. We are also committed to putting more money back into the pockets of New
Brunswickers and to creating an environment where more New Brunswickers will return home.
With this spring’s budget, we will be making significant personal income tax reductions by
simplifying the tax code. I stand here to say, categorically, that by looking prudently at all
government departments internally, we will find those savings. That is the priority of government
and that is the direction in which we are going to be moving.
Petites et moyennes entreprises
Mme Dubé : Tout ce qu’on entend, c’est qu’on diminue le nombre d’emplois au lieu d’en créer
partout dans la province. Ma question concerne les petites et moyennes entreprises. Nous avons
attendu longuement, comme les entreprises de cette province, pour voir quelles seraient les actions
de ce gouvernement pour aider les petites et moyennes entreprises à traverser la crise actuelle. Le
premier ministre a lui-même indiqué que nous commençons à vivre cette crise.
023 14:35
Nous avons besoin d’actions concrètes. Ma question est très simple. Où sont vos initiatives pour
aider les petites et moyennes entreprises de la province à se développer?
L’hon. S. Graham : Vous n’avez qu’à regarder le budget de capital qu’on a déposé la semaine
dernière. On parle d’un investissement de 1,2 milliard de dollars, le plus grand budget de capital
dans l’histoire de notre province.
It will create more than 6 000 person-years of work in this province. Those are jobs for small and
medium-sized businesses through this capital budget investment.
Mme Dubé : Tout gouvernement présente un budget de capital à chaque année et il doit faire des
investissements partout dans la province. Ce n’est pas ce dont on parle. On parle d’une crise
économique. On sait que les petites et moyennes entreprises de la province sont notre plus grand
employeur.
Ma question est très simple. Nous avons même proposé des solutions sur le parquet de la Chambre.
Je répète ma question. Où est l’aide pour les petites et moyennes entreprises? Le Conseil
économique du Nouveau-Brunswick attendait quelque chose, mais on ne voit rien. Je donne la
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chance au gouvernement de nous dire où sont ses actions concrètes pour aider les petites et
moyennes entreprises, soit le plus grand employeur au Nouveau-Brunswick.
L’hon. S. Graham : C’est une bonne question. Au cours de la dernière année et demi, notre
gouvernement a investi plus de 27 millions de dollars pour aider les petites et moyennes entreprises
de la région du Madawaska.
On peut mentionner des entreprises. Il y a Joseph Guy Dupré, dans le secteur de l’agriculture. Il y
a aussi : B.J.L. Enr., Entreprise Maxime Fortier, Gagnon Plomberie & Chauffage, Marie-Eve
Barbier, Rodona Trapping Supplies, Steve Mini Excavation, le Groupe Savoie Inc., la scierie de J.D.
Irving à Grande-Rivière et l’Atelier Gérard Beaulieu. Il y a une liste d’entreprises dans votre région
qui ont profité des investissements faits par notre gouvernement.
N’oubliez pas que le plus grand investissement, c’est 40 millions de dollars pour Fraser Papers, la
plus grande entreprise à Edmundston. Cette entreprise est certainement ouverte aujourd’hui grâce
au travail que le gouvernement a fait en collaboration avec la compagnie.
Mme Dubé : Comme je l’ai dit, tout gouvernement doit faire des investissements dans chacune des
régions. Le premier ministre se vante d’aider Fraser Papers alors qu’il ne leur a donné qu’une
garantie de prêt. Voilà l’aide que le gouvernement a apporté dans la région. Il faut le noter.
Il est clair que le gouvernement actuel n’a aucun plan pour aider les petites et moyennes entreprises.
Tout ce qu’il a cité, c’est ce que le gouvernement doit faire année après année pour stimuler
l’économie et aider certaines entreprises.
Ma question est très simple. Il y a des petites et moyennes entreprises partout au Nouveau-
Brunswick, dans chacune de nos régions. Quel est votre plan? Je crois que le premier ministre nous
a encore dit qu’il n’en a pas. Il est urgent de proposer un plan pour aider les petites et moyennes
entreprises. Il n’y a absolument rien dans le rapport ou dans les déclarations du ministre des
Finances pour aider les petites et moyennes entreprises.
Je répète ma question à l’intention du premier ministre. Quel est votre plan pour aider l’ensemble
de la province? Vous pourriez ramener le taux d’imposition à son ancien niveau, soit 1,5 %. Le
gouvernement a augmenté de 500 % le taux d’imposition des entreprises. Le gouvernement pourrait
le ramener à 1,5 %. Je demande au premier ministre s’il est prêt à faire cela?
L’hon. S. Graham : J’ai seulement indiqué que, dans la région du Madawaska, notre gouvernement
a investi plus de 67 millions de dollars pour aider les entreprises. C’était dans une seule région. Le
but était de créer des emplois et de maintenir ceux qui existent déjà. Cependant, on fait bien plus que
cela.
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Après 7 ans au pouvoir, l’ancien gouvernement conservateur n’a pas fait d’investissement pour le
collège communautaire à Edmundston. Notre gouvernement a investi, la semaine dernière, plus de
35 millions de dollars dans la région du Madawaska dans le cadre de la réforme de l’éducation
postsecondaire. L’opposition a décrié fortement cette réforme à la Chambre, mais elle dit
aujourd’hui que c’est un bon investissement. Notre gouvernement a fait des investissements dans
l’éducation postsecondaire. Aujourd’hui, on en voit les bénéfices.
024 14:40
Health Care
Mrs. Blaney: Yesterday, we saw the resignation of one of the top doctors in the province. Today,
the Minister of Health said, on CBC Radio, that the doctors in RHA B, Zone 2, were suffering from
a case of hysteria and that medical directors come and go. You may find it funny, but it is not. That
the Minister of Health would show such a blatant disrespect for our medical community is deeply,
deeply offensive. The Minister of Health has made it his personal mission to put politics before
policy. He has made it his personal mission to insult as many health care professionals as possible.
Will the Premier immediately intervene to correct the gross misconduct of his Minister of Health?
Hon. Mr. Murphy: At no time did I say anything remotely similar to that. There is no transcript of
any radio interview that will ever depict in any way, shape, or form comments similar to what the
member opposite said. I find it amazing that the member opposite has been the critic for four weeks
now and that she has not asked one single question that affects health care more than 10 mi from her
own home. Dr. Furlong, with whom she used to sit and who is the chairman of the trauma
committee, has, in the CBC interview from this morning and in the Telegraph-Journal, completely
contradicted everything that the member has alleged. He has indicated that the committee is going
to select someone in due course. Apparently, five or six individuals are interested. He has indicated
that we are on schedule with the Dubinsky time lines. Health care is advancing very carefully and
very well in New Brunswick. The trauma system is a provincial system. It is not a local system. Dr.
Furlong said that it was hard to be a year behind, as alleged by the member, when the committee has
only been at it for a year.
Mrs. Blaney: The last time I checked, the trauma system was a provincial system. The last time I
checked, the New Brunswick Heart Centre was a provincial system. For the minister to suggest that
I have not been discussing provincial issues is absolutely false. So far, the minister has heard from
the entire medical community in the Greater Saint John area. A physician has resigned. Nurses are
poised to go on a provincewide strike. There are acute staffing shortages around the province,
including in the ICU trauma units. How many people does the Minister of Health need to hear from
before he begins to listen and give attention to the crisis that is looming in both our provincial
trauma system and our heart care system? How many people does the minister need to listen to
before it completely falls apart?
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L’hon. M. Murphy : Je vais continuer à écouter tous les gens de cette province, y compris ceux du
nord Nouveau-Brunswick.
Rothesay is not Northern New Brunswick.
On va tous travailler ensemble avec le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick, les régions rurales ainsi que
toute la province envers le programme provincial, comme le centre de traumatologie.
We will also talk about the heart program and all the provincial programs that the member has been
bashing for the last several days. She bashed the ICU, the administration, the heart program, and the
committee on trauma. These people have all worked very hard. They have great reputations. The
hysteria that the member opposite is trying to create is not something that is benefiting health care
anywhere in this province. It is better to talk about ideas or concerns rather than this short election
for something later this week.
Mrs. Blaney: The only one doing any bashing around here is the Minister of Health. He has bashed
doctors. The minister has an apparent insatiable desire for power and control. What began as a
personal dislike for one doctor has now transcended into a dislike for an entire medical population.
Why? It is because they actually dared to push back. How dare they push back at the Minister of
Health? Will the Premier intervene immediately to restore confidence and communication between
health professionals in this province and the Department of Health?
025 14:45
Hon. S. Graham: Today, I think it is important that we maintain cool heads in this debate. We have
heard the Leader of the Opposition saying that he is going to practice a different kind of politics.
What we have actually seen on the other side of the House is the politics of division, the most
dangerous type of politics that any party can play in this province. We are elected to serve every
single individual in this province.
Dr. Dennis Furlong, a respected former member of this Chamber on both sides of this House, stated
the following in today’s paper.
“We are searching Canada and elsewhere where somebody may be interested,” Dr. Dennis Furlong
said Wednesday. “We have not rejected anybody, nor have we interviewed or accepted anybody.”
The key requirement of this position is that it be staffed as a bilingual position to serve a provincial
trauma system. That is key, and the committee must endeavour to find the best qualified individual
who meets these key requirements.
Today, what this member is asking is that the committee unilaterally appoint the first applicant,
without undertaking a proper search.
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Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Ambulance aérienne
M. Mockler : On va parler du bilan libéral, ce qu’on appelle la transformation libérale qui met en
danger la qualité de vie des gens du nord du Nouveau-Brunswick. Ici, je veux faire un plaidoyer afin
que le ministre donne ce qui est dû au nord de la province.
Le système de santé actuel est dans une crise, surtout en ce qui a trait au transfert des patients pour
des services spécialisés vers les hôpitaux du Sud. Ici, je parle des patients du Nord qui doivent aller
dans le sud de la province. Les experts le disent : les transferts de patients par ambulance aérienne
prennent trop de temps. Le temps d’attente est inacceptable ; on met en péril la qualité de vie et la
vie de nos résidants.
Ma question est la suivante : Afin de sauver des vies dans le nord de la province...
Mr. Speaker: Time.
Mr. Mockler: Time. It’s all about time.
Le ministre de la Santé et le premier ministre peuvent-ils nous assurer qu’ils vont mettre en place
un service d’ambulance aérien pour le nord du Nouveau-Brunswick?
Le président : Le temps pour les questions orales est écoulé.
L’hon. M. Murphy : Un service aérien sera décidé par le comité de traumatologie qui en train de
former un tel comité. D’ici un ou deux ans, ce sera tout décidé par ce comité. Toutefois, le présent
gouvernement, depuis ses deux ans au pouvoir, a fait beaucoup plus que l’ancien gouvernement
pendant sept ans. Nous avons établi un plan pour la construction d’un hôpital psychiatrique, qui va
commencer dans quelques mois, à Campbellton. Nous avons commencé la dialyse partout dans le
Nord. Nous avons commencé les services d’oncologie pour les patients du Nord. Nous avons aussi
ordonné l’agrandissement de la salle d’urgence à l’Hôpital de Tracadie ; toutes des choses qui n’ont
pas été faites pendant les sept ans au pouvoir de l’ancien gouvernement. De plus, nous avons
commencé et complété le réseau d’ambulance intégré unique, alors que l’ancien gouvernement n’a
rien fait pendant sept ans.
Le président : La période des questions est maintenant terminé.
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Reports
Mr. Alward: How do we ever follow either one of those? That is the question today.
Premier Graham has now been Premier for more than two years, and in two years, he has gone from
someone who spoke of bold transformation to someone who was not ready to govern, and then to
someone who, with debacles like French second language, postsecondary education, and health
reform, clearly was not capable of governing. Now, with the shelving of the taxation report and,
yesterday, the Finn report, even before it actually came to the Legislature, he is someone who does
not want to govern.
My question today is for the Premier. Will the Premier inform the House as to when he will take
action on the Finn report? We want to know when he is prepared to move forward.
Hon. S. Graham: It has been an ambitious two years since our government was elected to make
decisions for the province. We started with postsecondary education reforms which the opposition
members criticized at the time but embrace today. These are important reforms that will see
integration of our community colleges and universities. There will be success in the transfer of
credits, and we will also be dealing with the issue of student debt load. That was why, this year, we
froze tuition costs within our universities.
Also, today, I look at reforms in health care. We have moved from eight regional health authorities
to two—something that the Leader of the Opposition said last session that he would turn back with
a motion that he brought forward in this House. We are also looking at a single ambulance provider
today. Pharmacists are prescribing for the first time in the province. These are significant reforms.
016 11:00
There are also reforms in education. Community schools are now being implemented. We see more
physical education specialists and trades teachers in the system. At the same time, while it was a
controversial decision, changing the entry point of early French immersion was required in order
to deal with a number of issues in the education system.
This week, this minister has committed to taxation reform. It is a reform on which the Leader of the
Opposition has yet to take a position. Clearly, we are committed to lowering corporate income taxes
and personal income taxes.
Mr. Speaker: Premier, time.
Mr. Alward: As in the last four weeks of the Legislature, the Premier has refused to answer the
simple questions that were asked. The face and the life of a community are built and are created in
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that community by the people who live in the community, not in a glass tower in Fredericton.
Communities are real, with real people and with real aspirations. A Premier cannot stand up, make
changes, and disinvolve communities. My question is for the Premier. Will he inform the House
today as to whether he is prepared to force amalgamations on communities?
Hon. S. Graham: I want to finish the first question, and I will answer the second. Clearly, we stated
yesterday that, because of the economic situation facing the province—a situation that I do not think
anyone could have predicted at the end of 2007 . . . In fact, just this week, the government of
Canada, under Stephen Harper’s leadership, has said that there is going to be a deficit in Canada.
That was something on which we were up-front with New Brunswickers at the start of this session.
We were one of the first jurisdictions to bring forward an economic stimulus package.
In case the Leader of the Opposition has not noticed, North America is going through a recession,
and New Brunswick is not immune to that recession. That is why the economy is the number one
issue that this government will be dealing with in 2009. We have been clear. Because of the price
tag associated with the local government reform, we are putting that reform on hold. I was also very
clear: At the start of that process, there would be no forced amalgamations.
M. Volpé : Monsieur le premier ministre, vous avez démontré aux gens du Nouveau-Brunswick que,
en 2006-2007, vous n’étiez pas prêt à gouverner. En 2007-2008, le fait de mettre sur pied des
comités et de demander des rapports a démontré très clairement que vous étiez incapable de
gouverner. En 2009-2010, vous démontrez que vous ne voulez pas gouverner, parce que les résultats
des rapports et des commissions commencent à entrer, mais vous ne pouvez pas prendre de
décisions. Ma question au premier ministre, ce matin, est : Quand arrêterez-vous de jouer à la
politique et quand commencerez-vous à gérer le Nouveau-Brunswick pour la prochaine génération
au lieu de la prochaine élection, comme vous le faites présentement?
Hon. S. Graham: I have been blessed. I have been given an opportunity that only 30 people before
me have been afforded. As the 31st Premier, I recognize the importance of every single day and how
quickly a mandate can escape you. Instead of waiting seven years to make a decision, like the former
Conservative government, our government is moving aggressively on a number of key reforms. We
have yet to hear the position of the former Leader of the Opposition. Is he in favour of going back
to eight regional health authorities—something that his former government created, a tangle of
bureaucracy with eight silos? This member voted on a motion in the last session. Still, we have yet
to hear what the opposition stands for. What does the Conservative Party stand for? Does it want
more bureaucracy in health care? In terms of the postsecondary education reform, this member from
Madawaska was quick to criticize, but, today, our government is investing $35 million in a new
community college that is driven by the community. There is integration between the Université de
Moncton and the community college in that community. Is this member now against that reform?
Mr. Speaker: Premier, time.
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017 11:05
Comité du premier ministre sur les questions acadiennes et francophones
M. P. Robichaud : Ma question ce matin s’adresse au premier ministre. Hier, celui-ci a annoncé
son Comité du premier ministre sur les questions acadiennes et francophones. Comme la plupart des
intervenants, l’opposition officielle a aussi été très surprise d’apprendre qu’un premier ministre, en
2008, a besoin d’avoir un comité pour le conseiller sur les questions francophones et acadiennes,
lorsqu’un tiers de la population du Nouveau-Brunswick est francophone et acadienne. De plus, 75 %
de la population du comité de Kent, représenté par le premier ministre à l’Assemblée législative, est
francophone et acadienne.
Donc, ma question au premier ministre est la suivante : Quels sont les critères qu’il a donnés à ce
comité? Quel est le mandat du comité, étant donné que c’était très flou hier dans son annonce?
Quelle est la durée du comité? Quel rapport le comité va-t-il donner au premier ministre et quand
ce rapport va-t-il lui être donné? Voilà des questions très simples pour le premier ministre ce matin?
L’hon. S. Graham : C’est dommage ce matin de voir le député de Tracadie-Sheila critiquer des
gens comme Maurice Basque, Roland Gauvin, Lori-Ann Cyr, de Saint-Basile, Wanita McGraw, de
Tracadie-Sheila, Jeanne Comeau, de Bathurst, Annie Lévesque, de Balmoral, Édouard Allain, de
Fredericton et l’ancien juge Guy Richard. Je veux aussi mentionner Marc Duguay, de Caraquet. Ce
sont des personnes qui veulent servir notre province, et ce que j’ai demandé aujourd’hui aux gens
de cette province, c’est une chance de faire avancer notre province — une province qui est
exceptionnelle aujourd’hui dans la confédération, étant donné que nous sommes la seule province
officiellement bilingue.
Je suis fier de voir qu’il y a des membres d’un comité qui veuillent donner des conseils, et, en même
temps nous dire comment on pourrait améliorer...
Mr. Speaker: Time, Mr. Premier.
Écoles
M. C. Landry : À titre de porte-parole en matière d’éducation, cela me fait plaisir de poser ma
question au ministre. En premier lieu, j’aimerais surtout remercier les parents, les enseignants, les
directions d’école, les conseils d’éducation et le personnel de soutien qui travaillent à l’amélioration
de l’éducation de nos jeunes.
J’ai une question pour le ministre de l’Éducation, et je lui demande comment il peut expliquer à la
population de Grand-Sault qu’un financement de 10 millions ne sera pas accordé en 2009-2010 pour
le projet de modernisation des écoles élémentaires, qui est la priorité numéro un du district scolaire
3?
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De plus, il y a la question de la polyvalente Roland-Pépin, dans la région de Campbellton. Il s’agit
d’un projet de rénovation de 5 millions afin de répondre aux besoins d’une école communautaire
que vous avez vous-même annoncée, Monsieur le ministre.
Je ne comprends pas, étant donné que, sous l’ancien gouvernement, un plan de 58 millions avait été
annoncé. Pouvez-vous nous confirmer que votre incapacité à démontrer l’importance de l’éducation
parmi le caucus...
Le président : Le temps, Monsieur le député.
L’hon. M. Lamrock : Je suis bien content que le porte-parole en matière d’éducation ait lu les
quotidiens et que, finalement, il soit capable de poser une question.
C’est évident que nous avons l’un des plus grands budgets de capital de toute l’histoire du Nouveau-
Brunswick : c’est presque le double du montant du premier budget de capital de l’ancien
gouvernement. Toutefois, il y a 14 districts scolaires, et bien que ce soit une priorité dans les deux
districts — nous avons l’engagement de le faire —, il y a aussi d’autres écoles qui ont besoin d’aide.
Je prends note que le député n’a pas dit quelle école sur la liste il voulait annuler. Comme toujours,
le Parti conservateur n’est pas d’accord avec les choix qu’on devrait prendre, mais on va faire ces
projets.
On the capital budget, we are certainly going to do those projects, but we have also put the emphasis
into the classroom. That is why we are able to fund 600 innovative teachers, why we have opened
50 community schools, why we have had the largest funding increase in Canada after seven years
of being in the funding basement, and why we have seen the largest increase in literacy scores since
testing began, unlike the stalled literacy scores of six years ago.
I will say this for the Conservative Party . . .
Mr. Speaker: Mr. Minister, time.
Mr. Fitch: The Minister of Education loves to talk, so we were surprised when he refused to take
any questions during his department’s capital estimates.
018 11:10
I know that everyone in Riverview appreciates the projects that came to Riverview. However, there
is a group of parents in Albert County who are wondering what happened to the new Gunningsville
School. It has 12 portables in disrepair and only 10 classrooms. A new Gunningsville School was
very, very high on the DEC’s priority list. When can these parents expect some action on a new
Gunningsville School in Riverview?
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Hon. Mr. Lamrock: Certainly, that is another project we hope to do. With 14 school districts . . .
There has never been a single capital budget, under any government, whether Liberal or
Conservative, that did the top priority in all 14 districts. In District 2, we started the new Moncton
school construction as part of this capital budget. That was the top priority of the district. There are
13 others, and we certainly want to get to them.
I would remind the member that, adding in the construction of the P3 projects, this is the largest
capital budget for construction projects that we have had. Certainly, we have done as many as
before. We know that, when the previous government was in office, it thought that was a good size
for a capital budget. However, we have not heard which project on the list the members opposite
would cut. Do they think the school in Dieppe should be cut to pay for the school in Gunningsville?
Would they cut the school in Restigouche?
Mr. Speaker: Minister, time.
Quarries
Mr. Huntjens: We know that Jamer Materials Ltd. made application with the Department of
Environment to move across Highway 127. The Minister of Environment stated that if there was
enough opposition from the public, no approval would be given. Considering the fact that a petition
with 700 signatures was tabled in the House last year condemning the expansion of the Bayside
quarry and wanting to halt any further quarrying, plus there was the meeting of people from Bayside
and Saint Andrews with the Minister of Environment expressing their objection to the expansion
of the quarry across Highway 127, and where the town of Saint Andrews has clearly spoken out
against this expansion in order to protect its watershed, will the Minister of Environment tell the
House what his government’s answer will be to Jamer’s application to move forward with the
expansion?
Hon. Mr. Haché: I thank the member opposite for the question. He is right. There is a company that
has applied for a rezoning. There is a process with respect to rezoning. It does not matter who it is,
we will follow the process. In that process, there will be public hearings. At that time, people will
have the opportunity to give their views. The decision will be made afterward. I want to assure the
member opposite and the people in his riding that they will have that opportunity to speak their
minds. At that time, we will make a decision.
Water Supply
Mr. Northrup: Water is a great concern on this side of the House. Last August, the present Premier
came to Penobsquis and promised that water would be flowing to the good people of Penobsquis by
the end of 2008. Will the Premier keep this promise, or will it be another broken one?
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Hon. Mr. Haché: I thank the member for the question. Again, that is a commitment that we have
made, and we plan to honour it. However, sometimes, for different reasons, we cannot do it on time,
but, certainly, our government and the government before us made that commitment. We will
honour it.
At the same time, I want to say that we really do feel for the people in the area who do not have
water. That is why our department and our government are working so hard to provide such a
needed commodity. We agree that, if you do not have any water in the house, it is terrible. At the
same time, it gives me the opportunity to encourage everyone in New Brunswick . . .
Mr. Speaker: Time, minister.
Nursing Homes
Mrs. Poirier: My question today is for the Minister of Social Development. A few years ago, your
department had a priority list that identified the nursing homes in the province that needed either
major renovations or totally new construction. I am aware that the Villa Maria in Sainte-Marie-de-
Kent, which is over 30 years old, was high on that list. I am also aware that the minister understands
the situation at the Villa Maria, for she personally took the time to visit the nursing home a while
back.
019 11:15
Thirty years ago, most of the residents living there still had the ability to drive their own cars or to
go out on their own to community events. Many were even still able to look after some of their own
personal care. Madam Minister, as you know, that is no longer the situation or the reality for the
residents of the Villa Maria of today. The structure and the equipment no longer answer the reality
of the needs of Level 3 or Level 4 residents. Can the minister confirm that the same still exists
today? Can she confirm that financing will be made available in the coming year for new
construction? When will it be?
Hon. Mr. Kenny: Thank you for my first question as the newly appointed Minister of State for
Seniors. I am glad to respond to that question. I take the department very seriously. Right now, in
the department, we are looking at all the nursing hones within the province, looking at where the
priorities exist. Right now, we will make sure, through the capital budget process, that we will put
the right investments in the right places.
Foyers de soins
Mme Dubé : Je ne peux terminer la session sans parler du projet de la Villa des-Jardins et du Foyer
Saint-Joseph de Saint-Basile. C’est un projet qui avait été annoncé, et le travail avait déjà débuté.
Comme le garage du gouvernement à Edmundston, on a vu le projet des foyers pour personnes âgées
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se faire annuler. Je regarde la ministre du Développement social, parce que c’est elle la responsable
et la gérante du portefeuille. Ma question s’adresse à un de vous deux. J’aimerais certainement
savoir et vous entendre dire que le projet des foyers de soins pour Edmundston, soit la Villa des-
Jardins et le Foyer Saint-Joseph de Saint-Basile, ira de l’avant dans le prochain budget qui sera
présenté à l’Assemblée législative, pour le mieux-être du personnel et, bien entendu, de nos
personnes âgées. Elles ont assez attendu.
Hon. Mr. Kenny: Thank you for my second question as the Minister of State for Seniors. I am very
proud to say that I met with the two groups the other day, just after being appointed about two weeks
ago. We had a very good discussion of that project, and it is a very good project. We will also take
that project under advisement as we are going through the budgetary process.
Mr. MacDonald: Perhaps the third time is the charm. My question is to the Minister of State for
Seniors. I want to know the status of the proposed renovations to the 31-year-old Nashwaak Villa,
in Stanley. When the member for Grand Lake-Gagetown was the minister responsible, he came out
and toured the facility, promising that we would hear back from the department within a month. That
was about six months ago now. The board has been waiting patiently, but patience is wearing thin.
Will the minister commit to some sort of timeline today? I hope it is not just another answer about
the capital budget, because this is not part of the capital budget.
Hon. Mr. Kenny: I have been advised of the situation with the nursing home in that area. It is a very
serious situation, and we are looking at it. We are monitoring it. The department is keeping a very
close eye on what is taking place there. As the new minister, I will make sure that we take a look
at that project in a very timely manner.
Highways
Mr. Williams: On October 7, 2008, the Premier made another recommitment to start work on the
twinning of Highway 11, from Shediac to northern New Brunswick. The Premier said the following
to the Times & Transcript:
“Stay tuned for an announcement,” Graham said in a meeting with the Times & Transcript editorial
board yesterday. “When our government makes a commitment we will follow up on it.”
Can the Premier tell New Brunswickers how long they will need to “stay tuned” before he makes
another announcement? Is this another broken promise?
Hon. S. Graham: There are two important issues today that need to be addressed. Number one is
the fact that the new asset management program is now underway in the member’s own riding of
Kent South. It is the Liberal government that is rehabilitating roads that deteriorated under the
Conservative government for a number of years. The member himself has acknowledged today that
there is more work happening in Kent South, with the new bridge in Cocagne and the roadwork that
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was done in Saint-Antoine, within the village limits, and also from Sainte-Marie to Saint-Antoine.
It is the Liberal government that is finally making the necessary infrastructure investments in Kent
South when the former minister could not deliver.
020 11:20
Pertaining to Route 11, which is something that the Conservatives promised for seven years, I was
shocked to learn that not one bit of work on this file had been undertaken in the Department of
Transportation. We have started that work; planning is under way. I had a very good conversation
with Prime Minister Harper on Monday about looking at ways we can partner. I hope that Senator
Mockler can help deliver the money for the twinning of Route 11.
Fisheries
Mr. Olscamp: Earlier this week, the Minister of Fisheries announced an accelerated marketing plan
for the inshore fishers and lobster fishers of our province, a fine step for step one. I congratulate him
on that, but I have a question. What is the minister proposing to do for the next step to offset the cost
of diesel fuel, which is really getting in the way of our fishers getting out to their product, and to
offset the high cost of bait? What will he do to help fishers and processors weather this storm and
make sure that they meet their financial requirements and not loose the investments they have made
over the years?
Hon. Mr. Doucet: I would like to thank the critic opposite for the question; I certainly appreciate
the question. I look forward to the critic being able to come to the department to see exactly what
we are doing and to see the work we are doing on our marketing efforts. The key ingredient is to
ensure that fishers get an adequate price for their seafood products. That is why we have been
working for quite a long period of time on the diversification of our markets. That is the road we are
going to continue on. We have to diversify our markets. We have been hanging our hat on the U.S.
market for a long period of time; it is time to change that and to diversify some of our marketing
opportunities.
Écoles
M. C. LeBlanc : J’aimerais tout d’abord remercier le ministre de l’Éducation pour la nouvelle école
Sainte-Thérèse. J’aimerais qu’il puisse procurer un dernier cadeau de Noël aux parents en
confirmant ce matin qu’un centre parascolaire sera bel et bien construit dans la nouvelle école
Sainte-Thérèse.
L’hon. M. Lamrock : Je suis bien content que, finalement, compte tenu de l’augmentation de la
population à Dieppe, il y a un projet pour l’agrandissement de l’école Sainte-Thérèse. On a eu
besoin d’un nouveau député nommé LeBlanc à Dieppe pour finaliser le projet, mais c’était sans
aucun doute bon pour la région. Je suis bien content qu’on l’ait fait.
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On a certainement parlé un peu avec les représentants du district scolaire 1 au sujet de l’avenir du
centre de la petite enfance dans le district. Ils sont intéressés à le garder. Bien que ce soit un projet
du district, il y a maintenant une demande pour un peu d’aide de la province. On veut certainement
le faire. On va travailler avec nos partenaires dans le district. J’espère qu’on pourra avoir de bonnes
nouvelles au cours de la nouvelle année.
Health Care
Mr. Jack Carr: This is a very important issue to families in my riding and also throughout New
Brunswick. Item 13 of the Disability Action Plan Strategy concerns the issue of funding home
ventilators so that people with disabilities such as muscular dystrophy can live longer and can also
live in their homes. For a person to stay in a hospital on a ventilator costs $1 500 a day, or $500 000
a year. If the government funded home ventilators, it would only cost $5 000 a year for that family.
The Premier promised last year to fund home ventilators, but there still has been no action on this.
In tough economic times, there would be clear savings by funding this program instead of forcing
New Brunswickers into hospitals. You cannot wait for the budget in April for this. My question for
the Premier is this: Will he keep his promise to look for savings and efficiencies, and will he also
keep his promise to immediately fund home ventilators? This will not only save taxpayers’ dollars;
it will also save lives.
Hon. Mrs. Schryer: As we know, and as the critic across the way knows, we have struck a
committee with the advisory council to the Premier on persons with disabilities to look at the issue
of ventilators and how we may be able to incorporate ventilators at home. We need to look at a lot
of issues with respect to ventilators to make sure they are safe. For instance, how can we have
backups for ventilators if the power should go out? It is a complex issue which we are working on
with the advisory council to the Premier on persons with disabilities. We are moving the file forward
with them.
Mr. Urquhart: My question is for any minister who will give us a positive answer.
021 11:25
(Interjection.)
Mr. Urquhart: Stay there. I may need you.
The fire hall in Harvey is in desperate need of being replaced. After a second year of asking, no
funds have been set aside, even for the preparation work for the facility. They have to park the fire
trucks outside. They have to stop traffic when they move in and out of the fire hall. Will the
government commit to work with the village of Harvey and the Harvey fire department, at least to
do the preparation work for a new fire hall in the village?
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Hon. B. LeBlanc: I am presently doing my estimates and will be giving an answer. We are
definitely working with the people, and we are committed to looking at that project. We will come
through with the answers for the member very shortly.
Air Ambulances
Mr. Mockler: Since the Premier speaks about Prime Minister Harper, I want to say that there is one
thing that we, on this side of the House, know about Prime Minister Harper: He keeps his promises.
I cannot say the same for the Premier.
(Interjections.)
Mr. Speaker: Order.
Mr. Mockler: I know that, whatever the Prime Minister will tell the Premier, the Prime Minister
will deliver for New Brunswickers.
Ma question s’adresse au ministre de la Santé. Les médecins du Nord, soit de Restigouche-Chaleur
et de la Péninsule acadienne, veulent de meilleurs services d’ambulance aérienne. Le temps des
études est terminé. Les médecins et le personnel infirmier sont très, très inquiets. C’est une question
de sauver des vies. Le ministre peut-il nous confirmer que nous aurons de meilleurs services
d’ambulance aérienne pour les gens du nord du Nouveau-Brunswick?
Hon. S. Graham: Since I was mentioned in that question, I want to answer. First, the Minister of
Health is definitely working hard to implement a provincewide single ambulance system which
brings equality to every region of the province, and we have made significant progress.
I want to take this opportunity, because, if the rumours are true, I want to state publicly that it has
been an honour serving with Percy Mockler. When I worked in the Department of Natural
Resources, I remember an opportunity I had to visit his home. He had a lot of Tory paraphernalia
across the wall. We had lunch together that day. I have to say that, over the years, while we may
have had differences of opinion—and he has been a bit of a political conniver every once in a
while—his heart is in the right place. On behalf of all the Members of the Legislative Assembly, I
hope you enjoyed your final a